It is currently Mon 25 Jan 2021 10:26 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Wed 09 Dec 2020 1:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 2059
Location: 91 - France
Here are a few other things I'm not sure about -

Mhair Páidín agus a bhean bhliadhanta andhiaigh seó, ann san teach mór, agus nuair fuair sé bás d'fhág sé saidhbhreas mór 'nna dhíaigh, agus muirighín mhór le na chathadh.
Sin chugaibh mo sgeul anois ó thús go deire, mar chualaidh mise ó mo mhátair mhóir é.

Once again I'm finding fadas where apparently they shouldn't be _ for example - seó, dhíaigh, but when it comes to a family name it's always - O - as well as - tu - without the fada.
To express the idea that the story is finished, he says : Sin chugaibh mo sgeul - does this mean word for word : this/thus went my story ?
There's the expression - agus muirigín mhór le na chathadh (he translates this as - and a large family to spend it) am I right in thinking that chathadh is - caitheadh ? but I don't understand how it's being used here. (In Dinneen - muirigín - is given to mean a burden as well a good number of children or offspring I suppose you'd call them)
- ann san teach mór - is translated as - in the large house - should it be insan, or does he mean - there in the large house ? andhiaigh - is that usual to be written this way or should it
be separated out as - an dhiaigh ? Another example in the text is - Chuirsé.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Wed 09 Dec 2020 2:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri 08 Jan 2016 11:37 pm
Posts: 161
franc 91 wrote:
Once again I'm finding fadas where apparently they shouldn't be _ for example - seó, dhíaigh, but when it comes to a family name it's always - O - as well as - tu - without the fada.

In modern orthography eo typically means /´oː/ (the long slenderizing o), so it doesn’t need the fada (but it still most commonly is long), in earlier orthography it was often marked as such with a fada: seó, beó, éireóidh, etc. vs short deoch, eochair.

As for the lack of fada over tu – afaik it is often pronounced short when unstressed, so here also such written.

franc 91 wrote:
To express the idea that the story is finished, he says : Sin chugaibh mo sgeul - does this mean word for word : this/thus went my story ?

I’d read this as “that is my story for you (addressed to you)”, “that is my story coming towards you”, compare ‘here are the boxes as requested’ seo chugat na boscaí de réir mar a iarradh iad in focloir.ie

franc 91 wrote:
There's the expression - agus muirigín mhór le na chathadh (he translates this as - and a large family to spend it) am I right in thinking that chathadh is - caitheadh ? but I don't understand how it's being used here. (In Dinneen - muirigín - is given to mean a burden as well a good number of children or offspring I suppose you'd call them)

I probably wouldn’t easily understand it on my own. But with the translation – I’d parse it as standard chaitheamh (lenited verb noun ‘spending’), very literally ‘and a big family with/to its spending’, ie. ‘a family with a lot of children to spend it’, see muirín in FGB.

franc 91 wrote:
ann san teach mór - is translated as - in the large house - should it be insan, or does he mean - there in the large house ? andhiaigh - is that usual to be written this way or should it
be separated out as - an dhiaigh ? Another example in the text is - Chuirsé.


I’d read them as ins an (compare Scottish Gaelic anns an) and ina dhiaidh seo (but interesting that it’s not consistent with 'nna dhíaigh later in the sentence).


Last edited by silmeth on Thu 10 Dec 2020 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Wed 09 Dec 2020 9:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri 09 Sep 2011 2:06 pm
Posts: 628
The erratic use of fadas in the version/edition you're using is probably just due to typos and poor editing. There's another version out there where the use of fadas is more reliable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Wed 23 Dec 2020 8:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 2059
Location: 91 - France
Another very basic question, this is about the use of - díol. I'm assuming that it's the verbal noun that's being used here, but when I look elsewhere, I'm finding - ar dhíol - rather than - do dhíol. Perhaps it's the way it's used in this dialect.

Bhí dúil aige le dul go h-aonach Cháthair-na-mart le storc asail do dhíol.

What would be the most accurate translation of - do dhíol : 'for selling' or 'to sell' ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Wed 23 Dec 2020 9:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1365
franc 91 wrote:
Another very basic question, this is about the use of - díol. I'm assuming that it's the verbal noun that's being used here, but when I look elsewhere, I'm finding - ar dhíol - rather than - do dhíol. Perhaps it's the way it's used in this dialect.

Bhí dúil aige le dul go h-aonach Cháthair-na-mart le storc asail do dhíol.

What would be the most accurate translation of - do dhíol : 'for selling' or 'to sell' ?


In Standard Irish it is a (do > a):
Bhí dúil aige le dul go haonach Cháithair na Mart le storc asail a dhíol.

storc asail a dhíol = to sell a donkey
le storc asail a dhíol = in order to sell a donkey

ar díol (w/o lenition) is used in the sense that something is intended to be sold.
Tá an asal ar díol. = The donkey can be purchased.
It is a state of the donkey to be "ar díol" (state of being sold)

Compare similar:
Tá an asal ar fáil. = The donkey is available (state of being available)
Tá an siopa ar oscailt. = The shop is open. (state of being opened)
Tá an teanga ar labhairt anseo. = The language is spoken here. (state of being spoken)

(You probably can't use "ar" with all verbal nouns, it is rather idiomatic)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Wed 23 Dec 2020 10:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 2059
Location: 91 - France
Go raibh maith agat


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Thu 24 Dec 2020 9:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 2059
Location: 91 - France
This is the title of a story by Seán Ó hEinirí - An bhó dhroim fhionnbó a tugadh as. I can understand most of the words here, but I'm not sure of the overall meaning of it.
What exactly has been taken away ? The cow's back ? and - fionnbó - would that be a white cow or a Fianna cow ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Thu 24 Dec 2020 10:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1365
franc 91 wrote:
This is the title of a story by Seán Ó hEinirí - An bhó dhroim fhionnbó a tugadh as. I can understand most of the words here, but I'm not sure of the overall meaning of it.
What exactly has been taken away ? The cow's back ? and - fionnbó - would that be a white cow or a Fianna cow ?


"fhionnbó" makes no sense.

Here it is:
An bhó dhroimfhionn - bó a tugadh as
https://books.google.de/books?redir_esc ... me&q=an+bhó

It’s a cow with a white back.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Thu 24 Dec 2020 11:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 2059
Location: 91 - France
Go raibh maith agat - et Joyeux Noël.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 72 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group