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 Post subject: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Mon 26 Oct 2020 7:48 am 
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I'm not sure how to put this sentence together in Irish -

It was all spinning and weaving long ago to make every kind of clothes and every kind of a cloth that would be needed for the house.

Fadó ó shin bhí sníomhach is fíodóireacht go huile is go hiomlán gach uile sórt na mball éadaí agus gach uile sórt an éadaigh a dhéanamh theastaítí ón teach.

Obviously you could say - there was only/but - but here the sentence is positive - It was all......


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 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Thu 29 Oct 2020 7:22 pm 
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Here's another thing, in the text it's - dé - shouldn't it be - de ?

Níor bhfada go bhfuair sé an pota agus nuair bhain sé an leac dé léim an madadh mór dubh agus ar go bráth leis, agus madadh Pháidín 'nn a dhiaigh.


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 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Fri 30 Oct 2020 11:44 am 
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franc 91 wrote:
I'm not sure how to put this sentence together in Irish -

It was all spinning and weaving long ago to make every kind of clothes and every kind of a cloth that would be needed for the house.

Fadó ó shin bhí sníomhach is fíodóireacht go huile is go hiomlán gach uile sórt na mball éadaí agus gach uile sórt an éadaigh a dhéanamh theastaítí ón teach.

Obviously you could say - there was only/but - but here the sentence is positive - It was all......


'Sníomach is fíodóireacht uilig a bhí ann fadó le gach uile short baill éadaí agus gach uile short éadaigh a dhéanamh a bhíodh ag teastail sa teach.'

- It's 'fadó or 'fada ó shin', not 'fadó ó shin'.
- 'Uile' lenites the following noun. No definite article. I've kept 'baill éadaí' in the (genitive) singular.
- You need 'le' or 'chun' or 'd'fhonn' there to express purpose. Strictly speaking, 'a dhéanamh' should be at the end, but I think the clause can be split the way we've done it, to make it less clumsy.
- 'theastaití' (the relative particle 'a' is needed) is the autonomous form, which doesn't fit here. It should be 'theastaíodh' (3rd pers.) but I've used the progressive form. 'Ón teach' is correct grammatically, but I'm not sure 'ó' would be used when not referring to persons, which is why I've used 'sa'. Anyway the English version has 'for', so you could use one of the equivalent Irish prepositions.




Yes, in your other post it should be 'de', not 'dé'. Also 'as go brách/bráth leis', not 'ar'.


Last edited by Errigal on Fri 30 Oct 2020 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Fri 30 Oct 2020 12:33 pm 
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Go raibh maith agat


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 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Fri 30 Oct 2020 1:33 pm 
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The next question is this: the title of the story is - The Spinning Woman. Would this be the best word for it - An Bhean Sníomhacháin ?
Looking around, I've found - An Sníomhadóir, An Sníomhaí, An Bhanabhraiseach.....


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 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Fri 30 Oct 2020 6:48 pm 
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franc 91 wrote:
The next question is this: the title of the story is - The Spinning Woman. Would this be the best word for it - An Bhean Sníomhacháin ?


Yes,
An Bhean Sníomhacháin.


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 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Fri 30 Oct 2020 7:36 pm 
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Go raibh maith agat


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 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Mon 02 Nov 2020 10:13 am 
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Another rather basic question about what follows - gan. Here are two examples :

Tig leat an teach bheith agad gan chíos, acht tá taidhbhse ann, agus níor mhaith liom thu dul do chómhnuidhe ann, gan a innsint; (this is translated as - without my telling you - which of course, I'm sure is what it means in English, but in the Irish version there's no - my - nor - you).

Does that mean that every time you use a verb after - gan - you must put - a - between the two ? Is - a - being used here as a relative conjunction ?

Another thing, he's offering to sell the house to Paudyeen. If he's selling the freehold, why would he have to say that he's not asking any rent for it ?


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 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Mon 02 Nov 2020 11:38 am 
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franc 91 wrote:
Another rather basic question about what follows - gan. Here are two examples :

Tig leat an teach bheith agad gan chíos, acht tá taidhbhse ann, agus níor mhaith liom thu dul do chómhnuidhe ann, gan a innsint; (this is translated as - without my telling you - which of course, I'm sure is what it means in English, but in the Irish version there's no - my - nor - you).

Does that mean that every time you use a verb after - gan - you must put - a - between the two ? Is - a - being used here as a relative conjunction ?


No, it doesn't.
gan a insint = "without its telling"
"A" is a possessive pronoun meaning "its" (lit. "his") referring to "ach tá táibhse ann", the "fact" that there's a ghost in the house.
So, he could say as well:
gan é a insint = "without telling it" ("é" referring to "tá táibhse ann")
Here, "a" is not a possessive pronoun but a particle, a shortened form of do)
or
gan a insint go bhfuil táibhse ann. (possessive "a" again referring to "go bhfuil ...")

"insint" is a transitive verbal noun and needs an object (= what is being told)
either a noun or personal pronoun (gan aon rud a insint, gan é a insint) or a possessive pronoun (gan a insint, gan a hinsint, gan a n-insint). It doesn't need to be 3rd person: gan mo chloisint = without hearing me).
Intransitive verbal nouns never need "a" (neither as a particle or as a possessive pronoun):
gan dul ann, gan labhairt leat, gan ól gan ithe.

(BTW it is all the same with or without "gan")

Quote:
Another thing, he's offering to sell the house to Paudyeen. If he's selling the freehold, why would he have to say that he's not asking any rent for it ?


:dhera:


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 Post subject: Re: Scéal eile
PostPosted: Mon 02 Nov 2020 1:15 pm 
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Go raibh maith agat.

I was wondering whether the duine uasal in question who was selling the house had to mention the idea of not having to pay rent, because of course all through the penal times Catholics were only allowed to pay rent to absentee landlords. This story was noted down towards the end of the 19th century, so the idea of buying property must have become a possibility by then.


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