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PostPosted: Sat 06 Apr 2019 9:40 pm 
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Hello, all! New here, and I confess I don't know much about the language. But I do know that I don't necessarily trust Google translate (especially for this).

My in-progress novel (and thus important, to me at least) has an Irish co-lead. I have a scene where a new character--an avid linguist--is introduced. There's a bit of tension between the lead(M--speaks only English) and the co-lead(F--from Ireland) when they meet the new character(M), as the new character is attractive, charming, and skilled in languages. Got the idea?

All I'm currently seeking to say is either (in reference to the question of which language to speak),
"Would you prefer Irish?"

And/or,
"Irish, perhaps?"

That's it. But... now that I think of it, I might as well ask/confirm this as well:
Would it be appropriate for a loving Irish father to call his daughter his "Féileacán" ?

Thank you for any help!


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PostPosted: Sat 06 Apr 2019 11:18 pm 
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Quote:
Hello, all! New here, and I confess I don't know much about the language. But I do know that I don't necessarily trust Google translate (especially for this).

My in-progress novel (and thus important, to me at least) has an Irish co-lead. I have a scene where a new character--an avid linguist--is introduced. There's a bit of tension between the lead(M--speaks only English) and the co-lead(F--from Ireland) when they meet the new character(M), as the new character is attractive, charming, and skilled in languages. Got the idea?

All I'm currently seeking to say is either (in reference to the question of which language to speak),
"Would you prefer Irish?"


I'd translate that by "Would you prefer speaking Irish?"
which would be:

Arbh fhearr leat Gaeilge a labhairt?

Quote:
And/or,
"Irish, perhaps?"


I nGaeilge, b'fhéidir?

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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PostPosted: Sun 07 Apr 2019 5:52 am 
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Lughaidh wrote:

Arbh fhearr leat Gaeilge a labhairt?

I nGaeilge, b'fhéidir?


:good:

Taletimes wrote:
But... now that I think of it, I might as well ask/confirm this as well:
Would it be appropriate for a loving Irish father to call his daughter his "Féileacán" ?


:??: I don't know.
I find only real butterflies called so (in online searchable corpora)
(btw: addressing someone in Irish needs a special case, vocative, so: a fhéileacáin! = my b.

But on the other side, féileacán can mean figuratively a "pretty and showy girl" or a " very light person" acc. to dictionary.
That suggests to call a girl so.


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PostPosted: Sun 07 Apr 2019 9:37 pm 
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Thank you both so much!

For the record, this is what Google gives for the two statements. I'm curious if you have any feeling on them, as in if they are completely wrong or could work or whatever else you might know/feel/opine. They're almost the same...

Google:
"An fearr leat an Ghaeilge?"
"Gaeilge, b'fhéidir?"


On the butterfly topic: This really got me thinking/considering a change of nuance. Vocative, huh? Okay, that rather fills me with terror. :winkgrin:

Case 1: So if I understand correctly, for the father to be saying to his adult daughter (forever his little girl), as if she had just walked up to him, he would say,
"A fhéileacáin." (which would be saying literally "my butterfly")? As in, "And what are you doing today, my butterfly?"

Case 2: Alternately, and I think I now lean toward this interpretation: if instead her actual nickname is "Butterfly" (like "Sunshine" or "Cupcake" etc...), how would that change the statement?

For example, she walks up and he says, "[nickname]", as in "And what are you doing today, Butterfly?" (no my) or "Butterfly, we need to speak about..."

Thanks again and sorry if my attempt at being very specific is annoying!


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PostPosted: Mon 08 Apr 2019 12:35 am 
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Quote:
"An fearr leat an Ghaeilge?"

It would be "An fearr leat Gaeilge?", but the meaning would be "Do you prefer Irish?"

Quote:
"Gaeilge, b'fhéidir?"

That would work, but it would mean simply "Irish, perhaps?"

Quote:
On the butterfly topic: This really got me thinking/considering a change of nuance. Vocative, huh? Okay, that rather fills me with terror. :winkgrin:

Case 1: So if I understand correctly, for the father to be saying to his adult daughter (forever his little girl), as if she had just walked up to him, he would say,
"A fhéileacáin." (which would be saying literally "my butterfly")? As in, "And what are you doing today, my butterfly?"

Case 2: Alternately, and I think I now lean toward this interpretation: if instead her actual nickname is "Butterfly" (like "Sunshine" or "Cupcake" etc...), how would that change the statement?

It would be "A fhéileacáin" in both cases ("O [my] butterfly/beauty"), because he would be addressing his daughter in each case. The vocative case is present in a number of languages, but has almost disappeared in English. We still have a remnant of it in expressions like "O God", used when speaking to God. Actually, it is also what one is saying in situations such as when one says "Oh, John, will you do this for me", but we have mostly lost sight of the original grammatical structure of such expressions, and have (through ignorance) converted it to the interjection "Oh", rather than the original "O".

By contrast, if the speaker were discussing his daughter with someone else, he would refer to her as "m' fhéileacán" ("my butterfly"). The added "h" is still there, because the same sound change occurs as with the vocative in a number of other situations, such as when using the possessive pronoun "mo" ("my").

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


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PostPosted: Mon 08 Apr 2019 7:46 am 
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CaoimhínSF wrote:
By contrast, if the speaker were discussing his daughter with someone else, he would refer to her as "mo fhéileacáin" ("my butterfly"). The added "h" is still there, because the same sound change occurs as with the vocative in a number of other situations, such as when using the possessive pronoun "mo" ("my").


mo is always shortened to m' before vowels and silent fh
the ending -áin is used in vocative singular (and genitive singular and nominative plural) only.
In common form (nominative singular) it is -án

Is í m'fhéileacán í. = "She is my butterfly."

(m'fhéileacáin = my butterflies, of my butterfly)


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Apr 2019 11:47 pm 
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Okay, I'm definitely in over my head. I have had one comforting thought, though: I've heard (on Duolingo) that the language is very obscure and very few people speak it fluently these days. So, even if I'm slightly wrong, assuming I ever even get published, very few people would know enough to notice errors! I should be so lucky to have enough readers for someone to catch any. :rofl:

All right, well, I'm going to add all of this to my notes and strive to keep it minimal and simple. Though... even that seems complex.

Thanks for the help, all!


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr 2019 4:12 am 
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Taletimes wrote:
Okay, I'm definitely in over my head. I have had one comforting thought, though: I've heard (on Duolingo) that the language is very obscure and very few people speak it fluently these days. So, even if I'm slightly wrong, assuming I ever even get published, very few people would know enough to notice errors! I should be so lucky to have enough readers for someone to catch any. :rofl:

All right, well, I'm going to add all of this to my notes and strive to keep it minimal and simple. Though... even that seems complex.

Thanks for the help, all!


Don't go that route. If you're going to use the language at all, stick around here until you're sure you have something accurate. Or don't use it...end of. Duolingo is full of shit. This language means a lot to those of us who speak it...it's not just a toy for you to use for your book.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr 2019 12:51 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
"Would you prefer speaking Irish?"

Arbh fhearr leat Gaeilge (a labhairt)?


CaoimhínSF wrote:
It would be "A fhéileacáin" in both cases ("O [my] butterfly/beauty"), because he would be addressing his daughter in each case.
By contrast, if the speaker were discussing his daughter with someone else, he would refer to her as "m' fhéileacán" ("my butterfly").


Redwolf wrote:
. . . stick around here until you're sure you have something accurate . . . Duolingo is full of shit.


:good:


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Apr 2019 11:26 pm 
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Well, um... that came across confusingly hostile.

Relax. Duolingo didn't slam your language of preferred study. I'm only referring to figures I've seen quoted on how much the language is spoken these days (I doubt they're made up out of thin air), and the numbers speak of it being on the rare side. That's all--it's okay. Apparently, Duolingo and its patrons love the language enough to be teaching and learning it. That says something.

Quote:
blah blah just a toy blah blah

Wow, you sound personally offended for some reason. Maybe speak to your doctor about increasing your dosage.

OH wait! I get it now. Is this where we slam down our pints of Guinness and indulge in fisticuffs?! :guiness:

Damn. While I do appreciate the welcome, I'll have to decline. Take care, now!


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