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PostPosted: Wed 06 Mar 2019 6:05 am 
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tiomluasocein wrote:
Elizabeth, I've seen it written with no accent, with accent on the "e", and with accent on the "o". Someone may be able to explain why exactly but I suspect the differences are either dialectal or have changed through time. I don't have enough information right now to answer these questions. BUT . . . temporarily I can give you a rough idea of a pronunciation and someone else can comment and give more ideas:

Since the modern term for story is "scéal", "scéola" may be right, pronounced almost like SCALE-uh.
The other possibility puts emphasis on the "o" (sceóla), pronounced almost like SKYO-luh.

"Sceola" doesn't indicate which vowel, "e" or "o" is the main one. In my limited experience with the historical language, the emphasis could have shifted. If I find out more I will let you know. Suffice it to say that, for now, SCALE-uh or SKYO-luh would not be far from a proper pronuncation, and if anyone asks, you can explain all this stuff. Or just say "Here, read this" and show them this post. :)


There's a very informative set of "Reading Rules" for Old Irish in E.G. Quin's Old-Irish Workbook. He covers this in point 7:

Quote:
Other diphthongs (ia, ua, eo, eu, iu, also with length-mark on one or the other vowel) may be pronounced in accordance with their constituent graphs.


Scribes are inconsistent with their usage of accents in Early Irish manuscripts. It may not appear at all, or may appear over either vowel. Either way, whether there's an accent written or not, it is to be understood that one or other of the vowels which make up this diphthong should be long in pronunciation. What's nice, however, is that there's a precedent for not lengthening either vowel in writing, so the ogam transliteration is perfectly reasonable.

For my part, I'd also expect that initial s to be palatal, so if I were to give a potential pronunciation it would be:

Shkay-oh-lah


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PostPosted: Wed 06 Mar 2019 2:04 pm 
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Thank you both so much for the help. I appreciate it so much. I'm so glad I consulted with you before I continued. I will wait for more imput from anyone else, also.
Thank you all again for taking your time to help me!! Elizabeth


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PostPosted: Wed 06 Mar 2019 2:29 pm 
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Ade wrote:
There's a very informative set of "Reading Rules" for Old Irish in E.G. Quin's Old-Irish Workbook. He covers this in point 7:

Quote:
Other diphthongs (ia, ua, eo, eu, iu, also with length-mark on one or the other vowel) may be pronounced in accordance with their constituent graphs.


Scribes are inconsistent with their usage of accents in Early Irish manuscripts. It may not appear at all, or may appear over either vowel. Either way, whether there's an accent written or not, it is to be understood that one or other of the vowels which make up this diphthong should be long in pronunciation. What's nice, however, is that there's a precedent for not lengthening either vowel in writing, so the ogam transliteration is perfectly reasonable.

For my part, I'd also expect that initial s to be palatal, so if I were to give a potential pronunciation it would be:

Shkay-oh-lah


I think that's it. :good:


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PostPosted: Wed 06 Mar 2019 10:03 pm 
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tiomluasocein wrote:
Bríd and Labhrás, what do you think of the idea of Elizabeth using the Old Irish word "sceola" to mean "survivor"? Any ideas on using ogham to write it for a tattoo?


I honestly don't know anything about Old Irish. I thought sceola/scéola was the old spelling of "scéal". I don't know how to write Ogham either. :S


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PostPosted: Wed 06 Mar 2019 10:07 pm 
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Eliz McD. wrote:
And yes, I would like to know Bríd's and Labhrás's opinion also.
Also, how do you pronounce your names, if I can ask? Eliz


This is Bríd:
https://forvo.com/word/bríd/#ga

And Labhrás:
https://forvo.com/word/labhrás/#ga
I hope I got that right. 8-)


The link breaks because of the accent, so you have to copy and paste it into the address bar.


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PostPosted: Wed 06 Mar 2019 10:10 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:
Bríd Mhór wrote:
In the pre-1950s spelling it would be ogham or og(dot)am.


oġam

Quote:
Then they took out a lot of those silent letters. And replaced some with an accent. Like before the spelling reform my name was Brighid or Brig(dot)id,


Briġid

Quote:
they took out the GH and put an accent on the i so now it's Bríd. The name Donnchadha changed to Donncha. etc. I prefer the older spellings. It made more sense. And the modern spelling also alienated the older speakers.
The modern Irish for ogham is probably "óm".


No, the spelling is still ogham.
"ogh" survived the spelling reform afaik completely, probably because of different pronunciations in the dialects (often /au/ in southern dialects, e.g. foghlaim / foġlaim, /faulim/ in Munster.
I don't know: Do they say /aum/ for ogham in Munster, too?)


:good: :good: :good:


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PostPosted: Wed 06 Mar 2019 11:39 pm 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
tiomluasocein wrote:
Bríd and Labhrás, what do you think of the idea of Elizabeth using the Old Irish word "sceola" to mean "survivor"? Any ideas on using ogham to write it for a tattoo?


I honestly don't know anything about Old Irish. I thought sceola/scéola was the old spelling of "scéal". I don't know how to write Ogham either. :S


Go raibh maith agat. :)


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Mar 2019 11:43 am 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
Eliz McD. wrote:
And yes, I would like to know Bríd's and Labhrás's opinion also.
Also, how do you pronounce your names, if I can ask? Eliz


This is Bríd:
https://forvo.com/word/bríd/#ga

And Labhrás:
https://forvo.com/word/labhrás/#ga
I hope I got that right. 8-)


The link breaks because of the accent, so you have to copy and paste it into the address bar.


Oh, usually the forum software changes this to clickable:
https://forvo.com/word/labhr%C3%A1s/#ga

I'm no native speaker, I'm very far from it, mór an trua, le firinne a rá ;)
And I never ever said "Labhrás" aloud. It's a pseudonym. I'm Lars in real life.
But regarding "Labhrás" I'd agree with Bríds pronunciation above.


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