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 Post subject: Stupid Question #2: sul
PostPosted: Sat 22 Dec 2018 7:53 pm 
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Is "before...not" sul nach, sulnach, or something different entirely? It seems like something simple enough, but I found pretty much nothing for sul nach (as well as sulnach) online, so I'm asking you guys.


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PostPosted: Sat 22 Dec 2018 8:23 pm 
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Esszet wrote:
Is "before...not" sul nach, sulnach, or something different entirely? It seems like something simple enough, but I found pretty much nothing for sul nach (as well as sulnach) online, so I'm asking you guys.


There are very few example in corpas.ria.ie:
Cinnlae Amhlaoibh Uí Shúileabháin (1828) wrote:
Taisbeanann so go rabhadar na h-aontaighe reamhraighte se ar bun sul nachar aistrigheadh na h-amanna on sean-aireamh gus an aireamh-aimsire nua. Maidin aoibhin aorach nealtana ciuin; la min marbh ciuin nealtach.

Cúrsaidhe na gCuartaidhthe (1900) wrote:
A Bhríghid na gcumann, nach bhfuil 'fhios agat maith go leór go raibh Éire faoi bhláth sul ná dtáinic na cuartaidhthe i n-ár dtír.

Éigse Suadh is Seanchaidh (1850) wrote:
Ar do ghaisgeadh, fath nách fann,
Is eadh adubhairt Conall,
Sul nách folcha talamh de
Fagham-ne fios do shloinne.

Examples froim eDIL
Quote:
sul nach sgarud
sul nar fagaibh


I'd suppose, "sul nach" is impossible in Modern Irish.


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PostPosted: Sat 22 Dec 2018 9:21 pm 
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Can you give examples of contexts in which one might need to say "before... not"?

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PostPosted: Sat 22 Dec 2018 11:11 pm 
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"Say something before he doesn't feel like doing it", "Leave before you can't stay any longer", "See it before they aren't here anymore", etc.


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PostPosted: Sun 23 Dec 2018 12:04 am 
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I think people would say the sentence in another way in Irish.
Actually, I couldn't find any example of "sul nach" in Tobar na Gaedhilge...

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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PostPosted: Sun 23 Dec 2018 12:44 am 
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Would "Feic é roimh ní bheith dóibh anseo feasta" work?


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PostPosted: Sun 23 Dec 2018 6:17 pm 
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I think 'ar eagla nach...' would fit here

Tabhair dó é ar eagla nach ndeanfadh sé é.
Give it to him for fear he wouldn't do it .

If that's what you're driving at.


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PostPosted: Sun 23 Dec 2018 8:03 pm 
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Esszet wrote:
Would "Feic é roimh ní bheith dóibh anseo feasta" work?


No, "ní bheith" is ungrammatical.

is a verbal particle (or copula form), it needs a verb but bheith is a verbal noun.
roimh gan bheith ... doesn't work either.


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PostPosted: Sun 23 Dec 2018 8:45 pm 
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Then I guess this is somewhat off-topic, but how do you say things like "not doing", "not going", "not being", etc. in general? And I guess things like ní anois are ungrammatical as well?


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PostPosted: Sun 23 Dec 2018 9:24 pm 
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Esszet wrote:
Then I guess this is somewhat off-topic, but how do you say things like "not doing", "not going", "not being", etc. in general? And I guess things like ní anois are ungrammatical as well?


gan
not to do it = gan é a dhéanamh
not to be = gan (a) bheith
etc.
even with other prepositions:
le gan (a) bheith = in order not to be

But not: roimh gan bheith ... whysoever ;)
(It would be grammatical but it is not used.)


Ní anois is a copula/focussing construction, so: ní = is not
Ní anois atá mé anseo = (it is) not now that I am here
Ní anois é = It is not now.
etc.


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