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PostPosted: Fri 02 Nov 2018 1:14 pm 
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The start of the words "cuir" and "cur" are pronounced differently. Like kw- vs. k-.

I've spent an embarrassing amount of time trying to figure out how the 'i' could affect the 'c', but I think I've cracked it. It's that there's no effect on the slenderness/broadness of the 'c', but rather each vowel gets pronounced, so "cuir" is like "k-oo-i-r", and said quickly this is "kwir".

Is this right?

But the 'u' in "duine" doesn't get pronounced. Any rules to know when "ui" gets two vowel sounds and when it gets one?

Most "cuir-" words on teanglann are indeed pronounced "kwir", but I'm linking below a few that sound to me like "kir". Are these exceptions to the rule? Or is it that some Connacht speakers pronounced "cuir-" as "kir-"?

cuircíneach
cuirliún
cuirtín_lín
cuirtíní (but this sounds a little like "kwir-" - I'm not sure)

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PostPosted: Fri 02 Nov 2018 6:49 pm 
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Our man in Brussels wrote:
The start of the words "cuir" and "cur" are pronounced differently. Like kw- vs. k-.

I've spent an embarrassing amount of time trying to figure out how the 'i' could affect the 'c', but I think I've cracked it. It's that there's no effect on the slenderness/broadness of the 'c', but rather each vowel gets pronounced, so "cuir" is like "k-oo-i-r", and said quickly this is "kwir".

Is this right?

But the 'u' in "duine" doesn't get pronounced. Any rules to know when "ui" gets two vowel sounds and when it gets one?

Most "cuir-" words on teanglann are indeed pronounced "kwir", but I'm linking below a few that sound to me like "kir". Are these exceptions to the rule? Or is it that some Connacht speakers pronounced "cuir-" as "kir-"?

cuircíneach
cuirliún
cuirtín_lín
cuirtíní (but this sounds a little like "kwir-" - I'm not sure)


I don't hear a diphthong or a kw sound. But you could be right, I'm not the best at observation. And I'm only talking about the Connacht dialect.
There is a more obvious diphthong in "cuir" the verb.


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PostPosted: Fri 02 Nov 2018 7:10 pm 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
Our man in Brussels wrote:
Most "cuir-" words on teanglann are indeed pronounced "kwir", but I'm linking below a few that sound to me like "kir". Are these exceptions to the rule? Or is it that some Connacht speakers pronounced "cuir-" as "kir-"?

cuircíneach
cuirliún
cuirtín_lín
cuirtíní (but this sounds a little like "kwir-" - I'm not sure)


I don't hear a diphthong or a kw sound. But you could be right, I'm not the best at observation. And I'm only talking about the Connacht dialect.
There is a more obvious diphthong in "cuir" the verb.

I also hear "cuir", on its own and at the start of most words, as "kwir". The four links are for words where I don't hear the dipthong, just "kir". Which leaves me wondering why I sometimes hear words that start with "cuir-" as being pronounced "kir-", with no dipthong. Are they exceptions that most Connacht speakers agree should be "kir-", or is it that people in some towns always pronounce "cuir-" as "kwir-" and people in other towns always pronounce it as "kir-"?

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PostPosted: Sat 03 Nov 2018 7:57 pm 
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I'm no linguist but I would understand your observation so:

cuir is /kɰɪr´/
cuirliún is /kɰɪr´l´u:n/

You may here the glide /ɰ/ more or less. And the combination of /ɰɪ/ leads to a more or less centralized /​ɨ​/ depending on the quality of the slender r sound. (In cuir it is almost ressembling a d-sound, different from cuirliún. The /ɪ/ is less centralized in cuir.)
The more centralized the vowel /​ɨ​/ (as in cuirliún) the less you here the glide before it (but it is still there).

The glide /ɰ/ (what you describe as /w/) is just what always happens when slender /ɪ/ follows broad /k/.

Try to say /k/ + /ur/ and change immediately to /ɪr´/ after the /k/. The result is /kɰɪr´/


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