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 Post subject: f + consonant
PostPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018 11:43 am 
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Joined: Sun 12 Nov 2017 2:55 pm
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Does elision occur before f + consonant? Thus, is it: mo fhraoch, do fhreagra, etc., fhrioch mé, fhreagair mé, etc., or m'fhraoch, d'fhreagair mé, etc.?


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 Post subject: Re: f + consonant
PostPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018 12:35 pm 
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Esszet wrote:
Does elision occur before f + consonant? Thus, is it: mo fhraoch, do fhreagra, etc., fhrioch mé, fhreagair mé, etc., or m'fhraoch, d'fhreagair mé, etc.?


This is a grey area in my opinion. If your going in terms of actual pronunciation the 'o' in mo, do should be eluded, as
lenited f has no sound. So, d'fhreagair is pronounced as d'reagair, m'fhraoch as m'raoch. However, I've seen do fhreagra on official documents.

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Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ
(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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 Post subject: Re: f + consonant
PostPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018 1:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
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Esszet wrote:
Does elision occur before f + consonant? Thus, is it: mo fhraoch, do fhreagra, etc., fhrioch mé, fhreagair mé, etc., or m'fhraoch, d'fhreagair mé, etc.?


Possessive adjectives mo (my) and do (your) become m' and d' only before vowels (and fh + vowel)
But in do fhreagra there's no vowel but r, so do fhreagra (your answer) is more common.

It is different in case of the verbal particle do in past/imperfect/conditional.
There's d' before vowels, fh + vowels and fh + r + vowel
so d'fhreagair mé is more common than (do) fhreagair mé (I answered).
But in words beginning in fhl- there is often no d',
so rather fhliuch mé than d'fhliuch mé (I wetted).


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 Post subject: Re: f + consonant
PostPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun 12 Nov 2017 2:55 pm
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Alright, thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: f + consonant
PostPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri 18 Nov 2016 11:41 am
Posts: 16
If I may ask a somewhat related question...

Is the possessive m' (mo before vowel or f+vowel) always pronounced broad in all dialects?

m'anam - broad
m'iníon - still broad. There's a perceivable glide from m to i, almost as if written muiníon.

I've heard it pronounced like this in Connacht. I'm not sure about other areas.

Is d' / t' (do before vowel or f+vowel) always broad in the same cases? I've heard examples of both in Connacht, especially in Mayo dialects. i.e.

d'anam pronounced as if written danam and deanam.

GRMA


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