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 Post subject: Tattoo in Ogham
PostPosted: Wed 29 Aug 2018 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed 29 Aug 2018 3:57 pm
Posts: 3
Hi Everyone, I have read some prior posts on the topic and looking for some additional clarification.
Looking to have Family, Faith and Forgiveness in Ogham for a tattoo. I might just use one word but curious what each would look like in Ogham.

I have read various scenarios on how english does not translate into Ogham. I also saw some debates on converting English to Modern Irish or Old Irish first. I really like this idea.

So lets get to it! Trying to see if this is correct or not?

Family: teaghlach (immediate family household) or muintir (extended)
Faith: creideamh
Forgiveness: does this translate? Is it Forgive? is it maithiunas

What would those look like in Ogham?

Last if you are using just one word do you still put the arrows on the bottom and top?

I really appreciate any insights you have on the matter. I am hoping I am close and if not would love to be pointed in the right direction.
Cheers!


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 Post subject: Re: Tattoo in Ogham
PostPosted: Fri 31 Aug 2018 4:14 am 
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Joined: Fri 09 Mar 2012 6:16 pm
Posts: 1480
Flyers wrote:
Hi Everyone, I have read some prior posts on the topic and looking for some additional clarification.
Looking to have Family, Faith and Forgiveness in Ogham for a tattoo. I might just use one word but curious what each would look like in Ogham.

I have read various scenarios on how english does not translate into Ogham. I also saw some debates on converting English to Modern Irish or Old Irish first. I really like this idea.

So lets get to it! Trying to see if this is correct or not?

Family: teaghlach (immediate family household) or muintir (extended)
Faith: creideamh
Forgiveness: does this translate? Is it Forgive? is it maithiunas

What would those look like in Ogham?

Last if you are using just one word do you still put the arrows on the bottom and top?

I really appreciate any insights you have on the matter. I am hoping I am close and if not would love to be pointed in the right direction.
Cheers!


Please note, I am taking a stab at this, I have only reversed the apocope, NOT, the syncope.

Household (Family):
Teaghlach > teglach (Old Irish) > *TEGLACOS (Primitive (ogam) Irish).
Muintir > muinnter (Old Irish) > *MUINTERÁ (Primitive (ogam) Irish)

Faith:
Creideamh > creitem (Old Irish) > *CREITEMÁ (Primitive (ogam) Irish)
Iris > Ires(s) (Old Irish) > *IRESÁ (Primitive (ogam) Irish)

Forgiveness (there's a lot of options):
Dílgud (Old Irish) > *DÍLGUDUS (problematic as dílgud is a verbal noun)
Related: Logud (Old Irish) > *LOGUDUS (problematic as Logud is a verbal noun)
Maitheamh > Maithem (Old Irish) > *MAITEMÁ
Maithiúnas > maithemnas (Old Irish) > *MAITEM(O)NASOS

You can see what they look like by typing the words in here: https://ogham.co/
NB. Remember ogam is read left to right and from the bottom up.

Await further input.

*in case you're wondering what * means, it means that these words were reconstructed, i.e. we don't actually have examples of them from that time period.

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Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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 Post subject: Re: Tattoo in Ogham
PostPosted: Fri 31 Aug 2018 1:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu 22 Dec 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 97
Location: Corcaigh
An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
Muintir > muinnter (Old Irish) > *MUINTERÁ (Primitive (ogam) Irish)


DIL gives the forms "Muinter", "Muntar" and "Montar" for Old Irish. "Muinntear" is a variant Middle Irish spelling of the prevailing "Muinter" form.

Also (and I preface this by saying I'm no expert on Ogam) there's no way I can think of to represent a long vowel such as that at the end of feminine ā-stem nouns such as "MUINTERÁ". Because no nominative forms forms survive from the period which would show this ending, it's difficult to say how it might have been treated in ogam.

My personal advice would be to use attested Old or Modern Irish forms. I'd lean towards the Old Irish forms for authenticity, as late ogam inscriptions would have used these forms also.


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 Post subject: Re: Tattoo in Ogham
PostPosted: Fri 31 Aug 2018 1:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri 09 Mar 2012 6:16 pm
Posts: 1480
Ade wrote:

My personal advice would be to use attested Old or Modern Irish forms. I'd lean towards the Old Irish forms for authenticity, as late ogam inscriptions would have used these forms also.


I agree.

_________________
Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ
(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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 Post subject: Re: Tattoo in Ogham
PostPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018 3:05 am 
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Joined: Wed 29 Aug 2018 3:57 pm
Posts: 3
I just want to confirm that I have the correct translation per the prior response. If someone could confirm that would be great! Also if there is any additional information on forgiveness or forgive please let me know.
Old Irish:
Household (Family):
teglach
muinnter

Faith:
creitem

Forgiveness? or is it Forgive?
Maithem
maithemnas


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 Post subject: Re: Tattoo in Ogham
PostPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018 3:31 am 
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Joined: Fri 09 Mar 2012 6:16 pm
Posts: 1480
Flyers wrote:
I just want to confirm that I have the correct translation per the prior response. If someone could confirm that would be great! Also if there is any additional information on forgiveness or forgive please let me know.
Old Irish:
Household (Family):
teglach
muinnter

Faith:
creitem

Forgiveness? or is it Forgive?
Maithem
maithemnas


Just to clarify,

Muinter = family/ community in the wider sense. Whereas, teglach = household.

Re 'forgiveness':

Dílgud and Logud are perfectly fine, and attested translations for 'forgiveness'. The reason I referred to them as problematic in my original post was because they are verbal nouns, so its not certain how they would have been written/ said in Primitive Irish.

See eDIL: http://www.dil.ie/advanced_search?q=for ... ch_results

_________________
Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ
(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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