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PostPosted: Wed 13 Mar 2019 6:40 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
I recently saw a letter from the 1560s with "atáim agá fhairfraighe" from an Ulster chieftain. With the "agá" being "at its" being proleptic referring to a clause to come.


In the meaning of fiafraighe? That’s pretty strange spelling. I tried looking for agá in the Corpas na Gaeilge, but most (if not all) of what I find are indirect relative clauses (mostly agá bhfuil…). EDIT: on the other hand, there are quite a few texts with agá rádh: with a quote following, which I think means basically ‘saying this:’ (lit. ‘at its saying:’), eg. do bheannuigh Dia, agá rá: ‘God blessed, saying:’; or d'fhreagair an t-aingiol agá rádh, “Tiocfaidh an Spioraid Naomh (…)” ‘the angel answered saying this, “the Holy Ghost will come (…)”’.

Anyway, I’m pretty convinced that the two things: mixing of ag and do with verbal nouns in the Middle Irish, and the fact that do became go in Connacht, resulted in the modern written do mo, do do, etc., which kinda makes sense for Connacht, and only Connacht. And in my opinion using it for anything but Connacht is wrong, and I really don't like it in the Caighdeán. Thus I also don’t really get why the corkirish blog ‘corrects’ Peadar Ua Laoghaire’s ’ghá into dhá (as ghá seems to be a more sensible way to write the contraction of ag a and that’s what’s in the original books), and similarly am to ’om, etc.

By the way, I’d need look into some older Ulster texts – I wonder how much of the modern Ulster dialects was there already, and how much came with the influence of the Scottish Gaels after the plantation of Ulster (things like cha(n) rather than , preference of lenition after prepositions with accusative rather than eclipsis or dative forms – don fhear instead of don bhfear or don fhior, etc.). On the other hand, before the plantation probably everybody used the standard classical language in writing, so I guess it’d be hard to draw any strong conclusions about the dialect anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed 13 Mar 2019 11:00 pm 
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silmeth wrote:
An Lon Dubh wrote:
I recently saw a letter from the 1560s with "atáim agá fhairfraighe" from an Ulster chieftain. With the "agá" being "at its" being proleptic referring to a clause to come.


In the meaning of fiafraighe? That’s pretty strange spelling.

You get odd spellings like that from nobels in Middle Ages. Not proper Classical Irish since they're not Bards, probably reflecting their dialect. Or maybe it reflects an alternate Classical form for the word.

Quote:
similarly am to ’om, etc.

'om is how PUL himself pronounced it.

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The dialect I use is Munster Irish, particularly Cork Irish, so words or phrases I use might not be correct for other areas.:D

Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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