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PostPosted: Thu 22 Dec 2011 1:15 am 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Cha bhíonn. Go bhfios domh is é an t-ainm briathartha atá i gceist. "áit a mbeidh mé 'g éisteacht le na mugannaí dá mbualadh" = the mugs at their clinking/striking or whatever

Agus ins a' chaighdeán (agus i gcuid mhaith áiteach don Ghaeltacht) tá an t-L sin leathan.
Is ins an bhriathar shaor (aimsir chaite) "buaileadh" atá l caol.

Bíonn sé caol i bpáirteanna na Gaeltachta san ainm bhriathartha chomh maith (go háirid i ndeisceart an chondae; bíonn sé caol i dTeileann i gcónaí, mar shampla). Tá mé díreach i ndiaidh éisteacht leis an pháirt sin den amhrán, agus is l caol a chluinim ann. Agus an rud chéarna fá dtaobh de Crann Úll (“B’fhearr liom an gabha ’tá ag obair sa cheartán ag buaileadh an t-ord go lúfair is go láidir”), l caol a chluinim ansin chomh maith.

B’fhéidir nach bhfuil an l sin caol i ngnáthchaint an cheantair, ach ins na leagain seo de na amhráin, tá.

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Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.


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PostPosted: Thu 22 Dec 2011 1:24 am 
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Thanks for that. I'll put it all together and re-post it as before.

This leaves the gerunds/verbal noun complements.

Looking over the net, I see that the situation, in english at least, is much more complicated than it would first seem. There are many uses of the '-ing form', so rather than get into technicalities, I think that thinking of them as either 'noun-like' or 'verb-like' might be more useful.

Thing orientated
That’s a clever saying
His say (so) is important
The singing is good
The drawings of the book are good


Medial?
I hear the barking of dogs
The barking of dogs is good
The arming of men is evil
It is the guilt of having been saved


Action orientated
Singing is good
(Your) saying it is bad
He is singing
The dog likes barking
I hear the dog barking

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PostPosted: Thu 22 Dec 2011 1:31 am 
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Oh, I forgot to fill in some of the slots:


Thing orientated
That’s a clever saying
His say (so) is important
The singing is good =tá an canadh go maith
The drawings of the book are good =Tá líníochtaí an leabhair go maith


Medial?
I hear the barking of dogs =Cloisim tafann na madraí
The barking of dogs is good =Tá tafann na madraí go maith
The arming of men is evil
It is the guilt of having been saved [this is more to do with the English perfect, perhaps]


Action orientated
Singing is good =Tá amhránaíocht go maith
(Your) saying it is bad
He is singing =Tá sé ag canadh
The dog likes barking =Is fearr le na madraí bheith ag tafainn
I hear the dog barking =Cloisim an madra ag tafann

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PostPosted: Thu 22 Dec 2011 1:45 am 
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Jay Bee wrote:
That’s a clever saying

Sin seanfhocal/cor cainte cliste (doesn’t really belong here, as the noun ‘a saying’ is not just a nominal use of the participle)

Quote:
His say (so) is important

Tá a cheadsan tábhachtach, perhaps? Again, a say-so is more than just a nominal use of the infinitive.

Quote:
The singing is good
The drawings of the book are good

Tá an canadh go maith
Tá líníochtaí an leabhair go maith


Quote:
I hear the barking of dogs
The barking of dogs is good
The arming of men is evil
It is the guilt of having been saved

Cluinim tafann madaí
Is maith (an rud) é tafann madaí
Is olc (an rud) é fir/daoine a armáil


I’m not sure how to express the last one. Not sure it’s possible without changing the sentence structure significantly. The English phrase also doesn’t really make sense to me, unless it’s taken as part of a larger sentence; otherwise, you’d expect ‘that/this’ instead of ‘it’ in the beginning.

Quote:
Singing is good
(Your) saying it is bad
He is singing
The dog likes barking
I hear the dog barking

Is maith (é) bheith ag canadh
Ní cóir duit é a rá
 (or in Ulster, also ní cóir duit a ráidht)
Tá sé ag canadh
Is maith leis an cú (a) bheith ag tafann
Cluinim an cú ag tafann

_________________
Not a native speaker.

Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.


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PostPosted: Thu 22 Dec 2011 1:54 am 
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Thanks for that!

I'll study it all today and repost the cleaned up stuff

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PostPosted: Thu 22 Dec 2011 2:10 am 
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Quote:
The barking of dogs is good


Is maith an rud tafant madadh/madaí (I guess the genitive plural may be either madadh and madaí)

Quote:
Quote:
Singing is good
(Your) saying it is bad
He is singing
The dog likes barking
I hear the dog barking

Is maith (é) bheith ag canadh
Ní cóir duit é a rá (or in Ulster, also ní cóir duit a ráidht)
Tá sé ag canadh
Is maith leis an cú (a) bheith ag tafann
Cluinim an cú ag tafann


To sing is "ceol" in Ulster (I sing : ceolaim ; I'm singing : tá mé ag ceol).
So:
Singing is good : Is maith bheith ag ceol.
He is singing : Tá sé ag ceol.
The dog likes barking : Is maith leis an mhadadh bheith ag tafant (kokoshneta wrote "leis an cú" but there's a typo, should be "leis an chú" ; btw cú=hound, dog=madadh)

Of course one pronounces (in Ulster):
Is maith bheith 'ceol
Tá sé 'ceol.
Is maith leis a' mhadú bheith 'tafant.

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PostPosted: Thu 22 Dec 2011 2:18 am 
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Huh, I wonder why I switched from madadh to  halfway through (that rhymed) … Posting without thinking!

I’ve always heard/been taught that bheith ag canadh means to sing on your own (or just generally), whereas bheith ag ceol (or bheith ag ceoladh, which I believe is what they say a bit further inland) is only if you’re singing together with someone else. Or is that not distinguished throughout Ulster?

_________________
Not a native speaker.

Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.


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PostPosted: Thu 22 Dec 2011 2:26 am 
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Quote:
I’ve always heard/been taught that bheith ag canadh means to sing on your own (or just generally), whereas bheith ag ceol (or bheith ag ceoladh, which I believe is what they say a bit further inland) is only if you’re singing together with someone else. Or is that not distinguished throughout Ulster?


I've never been taught that, and btw I was taught that "canadh" didn't exist in Ulster but that people use "ceol" instead (and in the Donegal Gaeltacht I only heard "ceol" so far, never "canadh").

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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PostPosted: Thu 22 Dec 2011 2:32 am 
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Lughaidh wrote:
I've never been taught that, and btw I was taught that "canadh" didn't exist in Ulster but that people use "ceol" instead (and in the Donegal Gaeltacht I only heard "ceol" so far, never "canadh").

Huh.

I can’t remember if I’ve ever really heard either up in the north, but down south (GCC and Teelin), I’ve definitely heard both used, though can is more common. Could be it’s just a distinction they’ve come up with themselves.

_________________
Not a native speaker.

Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.


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PostPosted: Thu 22 Dec 2011 6:30 am 
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This is for anyone who might be interested in the verbal noun, which is everyone :good:

http://dingo.sbs.arizona.edu/~carnie/pu ... gories.pdf

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