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 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Sat 19 May 2018 1:55 am 
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Location: Baile Mhic Ghoilla Eoin, VA
franc 91 wrote:
D'éirgheadar i n-éinfheacht ins an are,


I think the spelling of me was perhaps intentional, as it was probably not pronounced fada in that context. I didn't note any spelling errors (besides perhaps that) in the bird story except the one above (are instead of aer). Was that in the original?

I am guessing Éirinn was written without an É perhaps because it was a capital letter?

You have seen more of it than I, but I am just meaning to suggest that perhaps it does not have any spelling errors after all

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ЯГОН ТОҶИК НЕСТ ИНҶО???


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 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jun 2018 12:29 pm 
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Location: 91 - France
This one is called "An Cat agus an Luichín", there are quite a few other versions of it in Irish, Scots Gaelic and Scots. It was written down and published in Béaloideas by An Craoibhín (Douglas Hyde).

BHÍ cat agus luichín ag súgradh lá, agus do sgiob an cat an
t-earball ó'n luichín.
"Tabhair m'earbaillín dam," ars an luichín.
"Déanfaidh mé (sin)" ars an cat, "má thugann tú braon bainne
ó'n mbadóig (heifer) chugam."
"A bhadóig, tabhair 'm braon, go dtugaidh mé braon do'n chaitín,
go dtugaidh an caitín m'earbaillín dam."
"Déanfaidh mé," ars an bhadóg, "má thugann tú sop ó'n sgioból
chugam."
"A sgiobóil, tabhair 'm sop, go dtugaidh mé sop do'n bhadóig, go
dtugaidh an bhadóg braon dam, go dtugaidh mé braon do'n chaitín,
go dtugaidh an caitín mo hearbaillín (?) dam."
"Déanfaidh mé ars an sgioból, "má thugann tú eochair ó'n
gabha chugam."
"A ghabha, tabhair 'm eochair, go dtugaidh mé eochair do'n sgioból,
go dtugaidh an sgioból sop dam, go dtugaidh mé sop do'n bhadóig,
go dtugaidh an bhadóg braon dam, go dtugaidh mé braon do'n chaitín,
go dtugaidh an caitín m'earbaillín dam.
"Déanfaidh mé ars an gabha, "má thugann tú ciste (sic) ó'n mnaoi-
fuinte chugam."
"A bhean-fuinte tabhair dham císte, go dtugaidh mé císte do'n
ghabha, go dtugaidh an gabha eochair dham, go dtugaidh mé eochair do'n
sgioból, go dtugaidh an sgioból sop dam, go dtugaidh mé sop
do'n bhadóig, go dtugaidh an bhadóg braon dam, go dtugaidh mé braon
do'n chaitín, go dtugaidh an caitín m'earbaillín dam."
"Déanfaidh mé," ars an bean-fuinte, "má thugann tú criathar
uisge ó'n abhainn chugam."
Chuaidh sí (an luch) go dtí an abha, fuair sí an criathar, agus do
sháith sí síos é agus do thóg sí aníos é, agus do rith an t-uisge tríd.
Do chrois thairis spreóigín crón-dearg de mhuinntir Uí Súilleabháin
"cuir cré bhuidhe agus marla i dtóin do chriathar," ar sise.
Do dhem an luch mar adubhradh léi. ann sin do sháith sí an criathar
síos san uisge agus do thóg sí aníos é lán d'uisge, agus do thug sí
an t-uisge do'n mhnaoi-fuinte.
Thug an bhean-fuinte císte do'n luichín,
Tug (sic) an luichín císte do'n ghabhainn.
Thug an gabha eochair do'n luichín,
Thug sise eochair do'n sgioból,
Thug an sgioból sop dí,
Thug sise sop do'n bhadóig,
Thug an bhadóg braon do'n luichín,
Thug an luichín braon do'n chaitín.
Agus nuair bhí an braon ólta ag an gcaitín d'ith sé an luichín.

Sin é mo sgéal agus má tá bréag ann, bíodh !


This is the question I have - all through this story for the subjuctive/modh foshuilteach in the 1st
person singular, it's - go dtugaidh mé. In Teanglann, it's - go dtuga mé, which I assume must be in official standard, but on the CorkIrish wordpress website - it's - go dtugad, although in the 3rd person singular, it's - go dtugaidh sé. So is it a mistake, though I very doubt that, or is it just another variant form ? and what about - mo hearbaillín ?
( It was a pity about the mouse)


Last edited by franc 91 on Sun 10 Jun 2018 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jun 2018 2:33 pm 
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franc 91 wrote:
d'ith sé an luichín.


Terrible end of the story ... :no:

franc 91 wrote:
This is the question I have - all through this story for the subjuctive/modh foshuilteach in the 1st
person singular, it's - go dtugaidh mé. In Teanglann, it's - go dtuga mé, which I assume must be in official standard, but on the CorkIrish wordpress website - it's - go dtugad, although in the 3rd person singular, it's - go dtugaidh sé. So is it a mistake, though I very doubt that, or is it just another variant form ? and what about


go dtugad is a synthetic form, used in Munster only , I'd think (and as an echo form at least in Conamara)
go dtuga mé is the Standard/Connacht form
go dtugaidh mé is the Ulster and old spelling version

(an even older spelling in Classical Irish is again go dtuga, but only as an analytic form in 3rd person and synth. form in 2rd person, iirc, 1st person was go dtugar).

Quote:
- mo hearbaillín ?
( It was a pity about the mouse)


:??: :dhera:


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 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jun 2018 2:57 pm 
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Posts: 1901
Location: 91 - France
Go raibh maith agat - there's another similar story that I know in what's known as le Parler Gavot which is spoken in Haute Provence - it's what my neighbours speak - and unfortunately it ends the same way.
It was the story of a rat and a squirrel (Lo Rat amé l'Eissirou) who both went off to gather nuts - the squirrel climbed up into the tree to throw them down and the rat kept on eating them. Finally the squirrel came and punished the rat by tearing apart the skin and fur on his backside , so he had to try and find someone who could sew it all up again. There follows a whole succession of various 'helpers' who all in turn demand something for their help. The last on the list is a cat, the rat was asking the cat to get rid of other rats who were disturbing the field of corn. The cat said to him that the best thing to do would be to start by eating him, saying - so now your behind will now be completely sown up - ton darrier sarà tot cordurat! It's very similar to Biorachán Beag agus Biorachán Mór or Monachar agus Manachar, which was also collected and written down by Douglas Hyde.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jun 2018 6:55 pm 
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franc 91 wrote:
mo hearbaillín


Presumably it's a typo > "m'earbaillín" - which occurs several times in the text: "my little tail".


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 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jun 2018 7:14 pm 
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Location: 91 - France
Is dócha é. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jun 2018 7:53 pm 
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Errigal wrote:
franc 91 wrote:
mo hearbaillín


Presumably it's a typo > "m'earbaillín" - which occurs several times in the text: "my little tail".


An extra o and h instead of an apostroph?
Strange typo.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jun 2018 8:12 pm 
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Location: 91 - France
I've mentioned this before, but it makes me wonder whether because this and other texts in Irish were printed in Dublin, did the typesetter understand Irish properly. For this particular story there aren't too many mistakes, but for others, there are far more. What I find even more depressing is that on the RIA website, they've put 'transcriptions' of these into modern print, but they copy the mistakes that are there already and add some more, not only that, when you get a page at the end of the original edition, with a list of typographical mistakes, they don't take account of it nor do they bother to transcribe it.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Sun 17 Jun 2018 11:24 pm 
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In Conamara the word for "tail" begins with a D. Not sure of the spelling maybe "drioball". So "my little tail" would be: Mo dhrioballín.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Story
PostPosted: Fri 22 Jun 2018 8:06 am 
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Go raibh maith agat a Bhríd.

This one is called -
'Na Gabhair ag Feuchaint ó Thuaidh'

The question I have is this - why is bad luck for them to look to the north ? or does this title have some other kind of idiomatic meaning ?


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