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PostPosted: Tue 21 Nov 2017 9:31 pm 
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When I look up the Gaelic name of Waterville (co. Kerry) I find An Coireán.

When I try to find the meaning of An Coireán I come across two possibilities: [1] The (Little) Whirlpool and [2] The Sickle/The Crescent.

My questions are:

[a] Is there indeed this homonymy? Does the words An Coireán have indeed these two meanings?
[b] If so, is there a (historic) reason to prefer one of the two meanings?
[c] What would the pronunciation be in Kerry? (Could you please, if possible, write down the pronunciation in sounds that are familiar in English?)

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards.


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Nov 2017 6:45 pm 
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gch_nl wrote:
When I look up the Gaelic name of Waterville (co. Kerry) I find An Coireán.

When I try to find the meaning of An Coireán I come across two possibilities: [1] The (Little) Whirlpool and [2] The Sickle/The Crescent.

My questions are:

[a ] Is there indeed this homonymy? Does the words An Coireán have indeed these two meanings?
[b ] If so, is there a (historic) reason to prefer one of the two meanings?
[c ] What would the pronunciation be in Kerry? (Could you please, if possible, write down the pronunciation in sounds that are familiar in English?)

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards.


coireán is a diminutive of coire , a "little coire"
So it can mean anything of:
FGB wrote:
coire, m. (gs. ~, pl. -rí). 1. Large pot, cauldron. Lit:~ (na) féile, public hospitaller’s cauldron. Hist:~ gorta, famine soup-cauldron. 2. Boiler. 3. Geog: Corrie, cirque; amphitheatre, deep mountain hollow. ~ bolcáin, volcanic crater. (Loch) ~, tarn. 4. Pit. ~ (ifrinn), the pit (of hell). 5. ~ (guairneáin, guairdill), whirlpool.

Further more coireán is the name of campion plants.

Pronunciation:
The stress is on the second syllable, so the first syllable is shortened and its vowel almost or completely lost as if written "C'reán" /krawn/ but with an Irish slender r sound, so almost like /kryawn/
See Munster pronunciation here: http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/coire%C3%A1n

A sickle is a corrán, i.e. with a broad r. Not a big difference. There are older spellings with broad r for the Irish name of Waterville (Currán etc.) beside Coireán.


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PostPosted: Fri 24 Nov 2017 7:00 am 
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Joined: Wed 16 Aug 2017 6:04 am
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Dear Labhrás,

Thank you very much for your ample answer to my questions. Nevertheless, I am not completely sure wether I understand you correctly.

At first I thought that your answer to my question number [a] was 'No'. (It only means "little coire" (i.c. "little whirlpool") and NOT "sickle".)

But how should I interprete your last words about 'corrán' ("Not a big difference" etc.)? That there still is a possibility that An Coireán has indeed a explainable linguistic link with 'corrán'?

Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Fri 24 Nov 2017 4:18 pm 
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gch_nl wrote:
That there still is a possibility that An Coireán has indeed a explainable linguistic link with 'corrán'?


Yes.

Ní raibh mé sa Choireán riamh.

Usually Irish place names are transparent but not always. Sometimes names became opaque.
This place was (or is) called əŋ kə'r(´)​ɑ:n, ə kə'r​(´)ɑ:n, ə 'kr(´)​ɑ:n in Irish.
I.e. there are two versions, the only real difference between them is r or, broad or slender r.
The spelling "An Coireán" (slender r) is nowadays the norm. Probably because people thought this to be the correct name, probably it is named for a little "coire" in the river (called Currane) between Lough Currane (Loch Luíoch) and the sea. (At least, AFAIR, someone explained the name this way.)
But I have no clue how (if at all) natives would inteprete this name:

əŋ kə'r´​ɑ:n could mean the little whirlpool
əŋ kə'r​ɑ:n could mean the sickle


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PostPosted: Fri 24 Nov 2017 7:05 pm 
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I don't know I'm only guessing, but could it be related to "caorán"?
We have that in placenames locally. It means peaty ground.
Caorán móna is a very small sod of turf.


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PostPosted: Tue 28 Nov 2017 2:07 am 
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The town is named after a bridge it grew around, which itself was over a small "violent" river, nicknamed the cauldron. It has a broad R in Kerry Irish.

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The dialect I use is Munster Irish, particularly Cork Irish, so words or phrases I use might not be correct for other areas.:D

Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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