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PostPosted: Sun 01 Oct 2017 1:49 pm 
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This is another part of Irish that really confuses me since there seems loads of different ways to say it.

Whats the difference between 'isteach' and 'i/sa' for inside and 'amuigh' and 'lasmuigh' for outside?

When is it appropriate to use one over the other and how does it affect the grammar in the sentence?

Also whats the difference between 'lasmuigh' and 'lasmuigh de'?


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PostPosted: Sun 01 Oct 2017 2:28 pm 
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An Sionnach Glic wrote:
This is another part of Irish that really confuses me since there seems loads of different ways to say it.

Whats the difference between 'isteach' and 'i/sa' for inside and 'amuigh' and 'lasmuigh' for outside?

When is it appropriate to use one over the other and how does it affect the grammar in the sentence?

Also whats the difference between 'lasmuigh' and 'lasmuigh de'?


Preposition:
i = in/into
sa = in the/into the
Adverb:
isteach = inside (motion)
istigh = inside (rest)
laistigh de = inside of (in relation to something),

Preposition:
as = out of
as an = out of the
Adverb:
amach = outside (motion)
amuigh = outside (rest)
lasmuigh de = outside of (in relation to something).

Prepositions (like i and as) don't differ between motion and rest nowadays
i dteach = in a house, into a house
sa teach = in the house, into the house.

So you can use adverbs (isteach, amach etc.) on their own or additionally.
Tá sé fuar amuigh, ach buíochas le Dia tá mé istigh. = It's cold outside, but thank God I'm inside.
Tá mé istigh sa teach. = I am in the house.
Tar isteach! = Come in!
Téir amach! = Go out!
Tá mé ag dul isteach sa teach. = I am going into the house.
Tháinig mé as an dteach amach. = I came out of the house.

Adverb forms with L- (< leath = side) can be used relatively. Then you have to mention something in between.
Forms with taobh (taobh amuigh, taobh istigh) have the same meaning:
Tá mé laistigh (taobh istigh) den doras = I am inside of the door
Tá an capall lasmuigh (taobh amuigh) den fhuinneog = The horse is outside of the window.

Without "de", lasmuigh is similar in meaning to amuigh (and laistigh to istigh).


Last edited by Labhrás on Mon 02 Oct 2017 6:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 01 Oct 2017 3:05 pm 
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Thanks, Labhrás, for the overview. So I guess the L- form would often be translated to "just" or "right" in English, "I'm just inside the door" and "he's right outside the window".

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PostPosted: Mon 02 Oct 2017 5:37 pm 
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Our man in Brussels wrote:
Thanks, Labhrás, for the overview. So I guess the L- form would often be translated to "just" or "right" in English, "I'm just inside the door" and "he's right outside the window".


I wouldn't quite say that. Tá an capall lasmuigh den fhuinneog could mean the horse is a mile away or more. The best translation surely must just be "inside" and "outside"

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PostPosted: Mon 02 Oct 2017 5:39 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:
laistigh de = inside of (in relation to something), always followed by de


When I first started learning Irish, we did not even learn amuigh and istigh and always used lasmuigh and laistigh. We did not even learn "de"
For example, Tá lón á ithe againn lasmuigh or Bíonn na páistí ag súgradh laistigh

Are you sure that "de" is required?

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PostPosted: Mon 02 Oct 2017 5:56 pm 
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Thanks for the very informative response Labhrás. Just one question about word order in a sentence you have gave "Tá mé ag dul sa teach isteach", I've heard people say 'isteach sa teach" instead does it matter whether "isteach" is at the end of the sentence or not? also is "isteach" actually necessary here since "sa" already means "into the"?

Btw Cúmhaí I've also heard 'lasmuigh' being used without the 'de' for example in the gearrscannán "Rógairí", but I also remember them saying "brostaigh" in the film even though the correct phrase is "brostaigh ort" so it might not be the best example


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PostPosted: Mon 02 Oct 2017 6:13 pm 
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An Sionnach Glic wrote:
I've heard people say 'isteach sa teach"
An Sionnach Glic wrote:
Btw Cúmhaí I've ...


You are right to be skeptical. There are few resources out there that can be considered entirely trustworthy. My approach is if anything is even remotely similar to English to assume it is not correct and to think of some other way to say it.
Until today I probably would have said "dul isteach sa teach" but now that I have seen the two options, I will now favor "dul sa teach isteach" since it is less similar to the English and therefore presumed better until evidence is provided otherwise ;-)

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PostPosted: Mon 02 Oct 2017 6:15 pm 
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Cúmhaí wrote:
Labhrás wrote:
laistigh de = inside of (in relation to something), always followed by de


When I first started learning Irish, we did not even learn amuigh and istigh and always used lasmuigh and laistigh. We did not even learn "de"
For example, Tá lón á ithe againn lasmuigh or Bíonn na páistí ag súgradh laistigh

Are you sure that "de" is required?


Oh no, I'm not. Thanks for asking.
You are right.
It can be omitted and then there's no difference between lasmuigh and amuigh, and between laistigh and istigh. (I changed my last post)
Féadfair fanacht leo lasmuigh = You can wait for them outside.


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PostPosted: Mon 02 Oct 2017 6:40 pm 
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Cúmhaí wrote:
An Sionnach Glic wrote:
I've heard people say 'isteach sa teach"
An Sionnach Glic wrote:
Btw Cúmhaí I've ...


You are right to be skeptical. There are few resources out there that can be considered entirely trustworthy. My approach is if anything is even remotely similar to English to assume it is not correct and to think of some other way to say it.
Until today I probably would have said "dul isteach sa teach" but now that I have seen the two options, I will now favor "dul sa teach isteach" since it is less similar to the English and therefore presumed better until evidence is provided otherwise ;-)


I never thought about word order here.

Searching in Nua-Chorpas na Gaeilge, I must admit there is not a single reference of "sa teach isteach" but 78 citations of "isteach sa teach".
(by native speakers, overall the ratio is 1:283).


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PostPosted: Mon 02 Oct 2017 6:45 pm 
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Go raibh maith agat, a Labhráis
In hindsight I guess it does seem inspired by German word order. But I will say this without regret that I'd rather speak Irish with a German accent than an English one :P

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