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PostPosted: Tue 06 Dec 2011 4:18 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Finally, ............................... = Fá dheireadh,


Is this pronounced FAH yay you ?

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PostPosted: Tue 06 Dec 2011 4:45 pm 
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I would say " Fah yeh roo".


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PostPosted: Tue 06 Dec 2011 5:25 pm 
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mimerim wrote:
Lughaidh wrote:
Finally, ............................... = Fá dheireadh,
Is this pronounced FAH yay you ?

In Donegal Irish, yes. :yes:

Féabar wrote:
I would say " Fah yeh roo".

That would be somewhat standardized Ulster Irish, a Fhéabair. :winkgrin:

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Tue 06 Dec 2011 8:46 pm 
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You shouldn't make general rules from Gaoth Dobhair dialect, however nice it is :-)
Pronouncing slender r as a y-sound isn't systematic outside Gaoth Dobhair. Pronouncing "deireadh" as "jeh-yoo" is typical of Gaoth Dobhair. Maybe in the areas close to it, people say it now (maybe under the influence of the Gaoth Dobhair people they hear on RnaG), but I wouldn't say "that is the Ulster pronunciation". It is one of the possible Ulster pronunciations :)

So, "jeh-yoo" or "jeh-rhoo" (with slender r) are right in Ulster...

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PostPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2011 11:25 am 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Pronouncing slender r as a y-sound isn't systematic outside Gaoth Dobhair.

Is it even properly systematic inside Gaoth Dobhair?

I’ve certainly heard people in Gaoth Dobhair who only pronounced the slender r’s as y’s in certain contexts, but not in others; and oftentimes people who vacillated between r and y even in the same word … though I can’t say for sure if these people were perhaps from bordering areas.

I’ve always seen it as a sliding scale, where there were contexts where the replacement was more or less obligatory in Gaoth Dobhair (e.g., between an accented long (phonemically) non-front vowel and a schwa, as in Máire/gáire/náire/glóire/úire), and then there were contexts where it’s allowed and common, but not obligatory (e.g., between an accented short vowel and a non-schwa, as in deireadh/firín/goirid/mairim/cuireann).

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Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.


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PostPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2011 3:43 pm 
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Quote:
Is it even properly systematic inside Gaoth Dobhair?


it is almost systematic in certain contexts, ie. between vowels in most cases, and at the end of words.

Quote:
I’ve certainly heard people in Gaoth Dobhair who only pronounced the slender r’s as y’s in certain contexts, but not in others; and oftentimes people who vacillated between r and y even in the same word … though I can’t say for sure if these people were perhaps from bordering areas.

I’ve always seen it as a sliding scale, where there were contexts where the replacement was more or less obligatory in Gaoth Dobhair (e.g., between an accented long (phonemically) non-front vowel and a schwa, as in Máire/gáire/náire/glóire/úire), and then there were contexts where it’s allowed and common, but not obligatory (e.g., between an accented short vowel and a non-schwa, as in deireadh/firín/goirid/mairim/cuireann).


So far I always heard y in deireadh, gairid ; never heard firín (I mean, never heard the word at all), but "fir" is pronounced "fiy". I never heard mairim nor cuireann with a y sound (but I heard "cuir" and "chuir" with a y, and even the verbal noun "cuir", instead of standard "cur). People may use a broad r in the conjugated forms of "cuir" as well (chur mé, curann sé, curfaidh mé...)
I never heard a y sound in "éirigh" and "éirí" (it would be "eeyee", so maybe it's because it would be a bit strange), nor in Éirinn or Éireann (while Éire is Éiye).

But what I wanted to say, is that in other dialects, pronuncing slender r (in the same cases ie. between vowels and at the end of words) as y is almost an exception. I heard máthaiy, athaiy, and a couple of words like that from people from Rannafast and Gort a' Choirce, but they do that much more rarely than Gweedore people.
An tOllamh D. O Baoill (from Gaoth Dobhair) told me that Gaoth Dobhair people tend to pronounce "normal slender r's" instead of the y-sounds, or even broad or "neutral" r's instead of these y when talking to people who aren't from Gaoth Dobhair (maybe they're afraid not to be understood otherwise...).

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Dec 2011 9:42 am 
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To the original poster,
what you are looking for is a list of functional chunks that can be learned as a unit and applied as needed.

One could say that there are two broad categories at work, discoursal elements and the increment. In the broadest possible terms, discourse markers assist you to manage speech and frame propositions, while increments move the conversation along by providing new information

Some discoursal examples would be:

A: I'd like some flowers
B: Red? [checking element]
A: Yes, thanks

A: This ones, ok
B: They're good, those ones [tail element]

A: Anything else?
B: Well, if you can, could you wrap them up, thanks [framing element]

While an example of the increment at work can be seen in blue:

A: ah, could you come here for a moment?
B: Sure. [/b]
A: well, This latch is broken and I can't figure out how to fix it
B: ah, no worries. I've just the tool for it


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Dec 2011 2:41 pm 
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Jay Bee:

That is right. For example a couple of "conversation carriers" I've thought of in the last couple of days are:

1) "Hey, how 'bout let's take a break from this till the New Year". - It seems too strange, but I would say it sort of like "mas mian leat thig linn (or: is feidir linn) sos a ghlacadh go i ndiaidh an bhliain úr." or "An nGlacimis sos go ath bhlian? (I may have the verb wrong there...sitting in bed and too lazy to go look up. It all just seems so complicated it makes me wonder if native speakers have a shorter way to express these thoughts.

2) "Wow... that smells great/delicious" (say coming into a kitchen) - I don't have a clue on this one.

3) Guy said to me this morning. "man, I like your ranch gate", I answered him back "Yeh, I always wanted some like that". I thought about how would I say that in Irish. I guess, "Bhí iad uaim i gconaí". I thought you also might be able to say, "Bhí iad ag teastáil uaim i gconaí"

I'm gathering a few and will post them in a few days. (maybe 5-10 at a time) These are just the simple thoughts of building conversation in which I feel so weak.

Ag obair liom :nail:
Féabar Mac


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PostPosted: Tue 13 Dec 2011 12:07 am 
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Féabar wrote:
1) "Hey, how 'bout let's take a break from this till the New Year". - It seems too strange, but I would say it sort of like "mas mian leat thig linn (or: is feidir linn) sos a ghlacadh go i ndiaidh an bhliain úr." or "An nGlacimis sos go ath bhlian? (I may have the verb wrong there...sitting in bed and too lazy to go look up. It all just seems so complicated it makes me wonder if native speakers have a shorter way to express these thoughts.


Both yours work fine (with some minor fixing: más mian leat, thig linn/is féidir linn sos a ghlacadh go dtí i ndiaidh na bliana úire and an nglacfaidh muid sos go hathbhliain/go dtí an athbhliain?), but as you probably noticed, they mean something slightly different from your ‘how about’ approach.

To be honest, though, I’m not quite sure myself how to get that particular nuance through. Perhaps something like caidé do bharúil ar sos a ghlacadh ó seo go dtí an athbhliain? would do.

Quote:
2) "Wow... that smells great/delicious" (say coming into a kitchen) - I don't have a clue on this one.

Not sure about ‘wow’ … I think most Gaeltacht people would probably just say ‘wow’ (bhábh?).

Tá boladh deas/cumhra uaidh sin is how I’d say ‘that smells nice’ neutrally. In a context like yours, though, I’d probably emphasise something and say nach cumhra an boladh atá uaidh sin?, or even just nach cumhra sin!.

Quote:
3) Guy said to me this morning. "man, I like your ranch gate", I answered him back "Yeh, I always wanted some like that". I thought about how would I say that in Irish. I guess, "Bhí iad uaim i gconaí". I thought you also might be able to say, "Bhí iad ag teastáil uaim i gconaí"

A leoga gur breá liom do chuid geataí rainse úd.
Ó, sea, bhí geataí den tsort (ag teastáil) sin uaim i gcónaí…

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Not a native speaker.

Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.


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PostPosted: Tue 13 Dec 2011 4:37 am 
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Féabar,
if I might make a suggestion, perhaps once you have made your list, you could categorize them in some fashion, as an aid to usage

JB

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