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PostPosted: Sun 04 Dec 2011 1:39 pm 
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(MODERATORS NOTE: This topic was split off from an earlier one about an online test which can be found here:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=487&start=30

I thought Faber's thoughts on building blocks deserved its own space.)




Samhlaim go bhfuil sé an ceart agat. But, I find if I can speak with anyone it helps. For me the thing is the using of the language coming out of my mouth and into my ears. As I've said before here, it is almost as though the writing and reading of it is a different language. What I lack are the simple building blocks of conversation, that I am hoping will come in time. I try to pick a few of those off of Gaeilge Amháin on Facebook. There are some very very good writers and a few of them are native speakers of Irish.

The building blocks are little phrases like:

I would if I could.
At least
What I lack are the basic building blocks
For the most part

My frustration in Irish is that I don't know how to say the most basic things. Things that you'd say in a household. I'm making a huge list and when I'm hopefully back in the Donegal Gaeltacht this coming summer, I'll ask the little grandson again how he'd say a list of about 500 things.

"It's up there on the top shelf"
"Can you guys come over here and help me start this tractor"
"Hey, come help, she can't start the car"
"Go hook up the disk and help me plow this field"
"I'm not sure I want to use the welder or not"
"I just saw a deer run under my back fence"
"Sometimes my back hurts so much I need to sleep on the sofa"
"It's time to worm all these cows"
"There's more jam in the jar on the middle shelf in the fridge"


I know this sounds crazy, but those sentences would take me so long to figure out the conversation
would have moved on to the next county by the time I figured them out. They need to flow mindlessly out of my mouth
if I ever hope to speak smoothly. But.....maybe I'll learn one more thing today!


Last edited by Breandán on Sun 04 Dec 2011 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Edited to explain topic split.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Dec 2011 1:45 pm 
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Féabar wrote:
My frustration in Irish is that I don't know how to say the most basic things. Things that you'd say in a household.

[…]

"Go hook up the disk and help me plow this field"
"I'm not sure I want to use the welder or not"
"I just saw a deer run under my back fence"
"It's time to worm all these cows"

8O :hide:

Y’all got some weird-ass households over there in ’Merrikuh. :bolt:




(I don’t even understand the first one! I take it a disk is something on a plow (?), but if you told me to go hook up the disk, I’d just be standing there looking at you quite nonplussed …)

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Not a native speaker.

Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Dec 2011 2:24 pm 
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I would if I could. = Ghéanfainn é dá mbeinn ábalta / dá dtiocfadh liom.
At least = ar a laghad, ar a' chuid is lú
What I lack are the basic building blocks = Is é atá 'e dhíth orm na ?? bunúsacha
For the most part = don chuid is mó

"It's up there on the top shelf" = Tá sé thuas ansin ar an tseilf is airde

"Can you guys come over here and help me start this tractor"= An dtig libh a theacht anseo agus cuidiú liom an tarraiceoir (?) a chur ag gabháil?
"Hey, come help, she can't start the car" = Taraigí a chuidiú léithe, cha dtig léithe 'n carr a chur ag gabháil
"Go hook up the disk and help me plow this field"= I don't understand hook up nor disk there :D
"I'm not sure I want to use the welder or not" = Níl mé cinnte an úsáideochaidh mé 'n welder (?) nó nach n-úsáideochaidh
"I just saw a deer run under my back fence" = Tá mé i ndiaidh fia a dh'fheiceáilt, a' rith faoi (??) mo chlaí chúil (?)
"Sometimes my back hurts so much I need to sleep on the sofa" = Amannaí bíonn mo dhroim gomh nimhneach, go gcaithfidh mé ghabháil a luí ar an tolg (?)
"It's time to worm all these cows" = Tá sé 'na am na ba sin uilig a ????? (to worm?)
"There's more jam in the jar on the middle shelf in the fridge" = Tá níos mó suibhe ins an phróca atá ar an tseilf láir don fhuaradán

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


Last edited by Lughaidh on Sun 04 Dec 2011 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Dec 2011 2:31 pm 
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‘Building blocks’ … perhaps just directly translated as bloic thógála (never actually heard anyone use this word in the plural in Donegal—but I’m guessing they’d be more likely to say blocanna(í) tógála instead).

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Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Dec 2011 2:37 pm 
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An úsáideochthá sin le labhairt fá fhoghlaim na teangtha? (más é sin atá i gceist)

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Dec 2011 2:52 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
An úsáideochthá sin le labhairt fá fhoghlaim na teangtha? (más é sin atá i gceist)

Níl a fhios agam…

Níl a fhios agam an bhfuil a chothrom de mheafar ann ins an Ghaeilig ar chor ar bith, nó má tá, níl sé agam. Ach ar aon nós, thuigfeá é mar mheafar as an Bhéarla, gidh gur Béarlachas atá ann, b’fhéidir.

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Not a native speaker.

Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Dec 2011 3:26 pm 
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Koko .... you're too funny and Lughaidh....oh my gosh.....I am getting the list together for YOU. I will post it here in a month or so, and we'll let you have a crack at it. I will write down on a card everytime I don't know how to say something. When I get back to Gleann Fhinne, I may be able to have a good conversation.

@Koko..... I don't preesheate you tawkin' that way 'bout fokes back home thatta way and how we live. I must admit my mind wandered a bit after the "household" reference. Don't you have tractors in your homes there in Finland, Denmark, Latvia or wherever you are?

I'm going to put down the expressions the way native speakers (at least from Texas) express things. I must know how to say these in Donegal.
A good first one would be "Hey. can yaw tell me where the salsa's at so I can put it on the barbcue. And....wow....she scrubs up real nice".


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Dec 2011 5:12 pm 
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Féabar wrote:
@Koko..... I don't preesheate you tawkin' that way 'bout fokes back home thatta way and how we live. I must admit my mind wandered a bit after the "household" reference. Don't you have tractors in your homes there in Finland, Denmark, Latvia or wherever you are?

Sure, if you live far enough out in the countryside …

But even there, we generally don’t consider conversations about nonstarting cars and tractors, plow disks (whatever they are), welders, lumbago, cow-worming, or deer creeping under fences to be quite pivotal conversation material. Useful in certain circumstances, sure … but not essential key vocabulary. :razz:

_________________
Not a native speaker.

Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Dec 2011 5:42 pm 
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Quote:
Koko .... you're too funny and Lughaidh....oh my gosh.....I am getting the list together for YOU. I will post it here in a month or so, and we'll let you have a crack at it.


but you should ask some native speaker rather than me. I don't know all the English words you used and I'm not sure all my translations are the most natural ways someone from Donegal would say. I know my sentences are grammatically right, but maybe Donegal speakers use expressions or stuff I don't know yet...

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Dec 2011 6:02 pm 
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The word you are looking for ("basic building blocks") might be something along the lines of cora bunúsacha cainte or perhaps bunchora cainte although that doesn't quite give the feel of "building up" sentences by putting the units side by side ...

Am I right in thinking it's not really the "tractors" or the "deer" so much as the little turns of phrase that stitch it all together that you are after, Faber?

A few years ago (okay, 20 years ago :LOL: ), Collins French Dictionary had a supplement with useful phrases for expressing your opinion, "I think ...", "I wonder ...", "You may well be correct but ...", "My experience has been a little different ..." I forget what they called it but it had really useful concepts and I always wanted to translate it into Irish (or at least use it as a reference to compile an Irish list) but I can't locate the dictionary (I have stuff here still packed in boxes four years after we moved. :facepalm: )

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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