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 Post subject: ... is ea é an ...
PostPosted: Thu 15 Jun 2017 11:02 pm 
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In Vicipéid there are many single sentence articles and in a lot of them that sentence is: Y is ea é an X. (or Y is ea í an X" / "Y is ea iad na X-anna") which is meant to mean "X is a Y",
e.g. Ainmhí is ea é an scúnc, a skunk is an animal.
Even in a lot of long articles, obviously written by people with better language skills (than me) I found this construction, as well in elaborated articles about linguistics or about the Irish language.

But I would say that the correct form is either Is Y é (í, iad) X or Y is ea X but nothing in between.
Is ainmhí é an scúnc.
or
Ainmhí is ea an scúnc.

Does anyone really say "Ainmhí is ea é an scúnc"?

(I’ve changed already a lot of these articles ... so don’t say I’m wrong. ;))


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 Post subject: Re: ... is ea é an ...
PostPosted: Thu 15 Jun 2017 11:55 pm 
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I have never see the "is ea é" structure either. And, looking on GnaG, here's what it has to say about it:

Quote:
A subsubject (é/í/iad) as in "normal" classifactorial clauses is in the left shift unnecessary (because yes ea stands between copula and subject), and is omitted.



So, basically, "ea" takes the place of the subpredicate, thus stopping the copula from directly interacting with the definite noun which removes the need for the subpredicate.


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 Post subject: Re: ... is ea é an ...
PostPosted: Thu 22 Jun 2017 10:38 am 
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Joined: Fri 09 Sep 2011 2:06 pm
Posts: 486
Labhrás wrote:
In Vicipéid there are many single sentence articles and in a lot of them that sentence is: Y is ea é an X. (or Y is ea í an X" / "Y is ea iad na X-anna") which is meant to mean "X is a Y",
e.g. Ainmhí is ea é an scúnc, a skunk is an animal.
Even in a lot of long articles, obviously written by people with better language skills (than me) I found this construction, as well in elaborated articles about linguistics or about the Irish language.

But I would say that the correct form is either Is Y é (í, iad) X or Y is ea X but nothing in between.
Is ainmhí é an scúnc.
or
Ainmhí is ea an scúnc.

Does anyone really say "Ainmhí is ea é an scúnc"?



I googled around and found plenty of examples of this structure in reputable sources. Presumably this incorrect - or at least non-standard - use of the "sub-subject" is by analogy with Is ainmhi é/Is ainmhí é an scúnc. I wonder what An Cionnfhaolach, An Lon Dubh and Gumbi would say.


galaxyrocker wrote:
I have never see the "is ea é" structure either. And, looking on GnaG, here's what it has to say about it:

Quote:
A subsubject (é/í/iad) as in "normal" classifactorial clauses is in the left shift unnecessary (because yes ea stands between copula and subject), and is omitted.



So, basically, "ea" takes the place of the subpredicate, thus stopping the copula from directly interacting with the definite noun which removes the need for the subpredicate.


You mean the sub-subject (fo-ainmní), not the sub-predicate (fo-fhaisnéis).


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 Post subject: Re: ... is ea é an ...
PostPosted: Thu 22 Jun 2017 5:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 592
galaxyrocker wrote:
looking on GnaG,


Tá's agam mar is mé a scríobh GnaG. ;)

Errigal wrote:
Labhrás wrote:
Does anyone really say "Ainmhí is ea é an scúnc"?



I googled around and found plenty of examples of this structure in reputable sources. Presumably this incorrect - or at least non-standard - use of the "sub-subject" is by analogy with Is ainmhi é/Is ainmhí é an scúnc. I wonder what An Cionnfhaolach, An Lon Dubh and Gumbi would say.


Could you please cite an example?

I searched for "ea é an" in https://focloir.sketchengine.co.uk/auth ... rch?home=1
There aren't any examples with a sub-subject by native speakers.
One example has an antecedent "é" before a verbal noun phrase (... é an long a theacht ...)
"Tháinig uafás ar an slua go léir , mar míorúilt cheart ab ea é an long a theacht sa chuan agus gan á stiúradh agus á seoladh ach marbhán gan anam." (Seán Ó Cuirrín, Dracula)
Another example has an adverbial "an uair sin", so é is the only subject.
"Fear óg láidir crua fuinniúil ba ea é an uair sin." (an tA. Peadar Ua Laoghaire)
That's all.

There are even very few examples by non-native speakers.
e.g.
"Imeacht mór idirnáisiúnta is ea é an fhéile" (Lá) (I'd expect at least í an fhéile)
"Coincheap go hiomlán meánaicmeach ab ea é an t-oideachas tríú leibhéal." (Máire Ní Néill, Beatha Dhuine a thoil)
"Ábhar mór eile i mo shaol ab ea é an ceol." (idem)
There are some more examples with a following verbal noun phrase (such as above from Ó Cuirrín) but that's not what I searched for.

But there are 432 examples by native speakers (> 2000 native/non-native/unknown speakers) without a sub-subject but a following noun, preceded by the article an (... ea an ...)


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 Post subject: Re: ... is ea é an ...
PostPosted: Fri 23 Jun 2017 6:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri 30 Sep 2011 10:08 pm
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My experience is that people say it when they then say more about the subject:

Lá brothallach ab' ea é an lá a bhíomair ann.

Other than that you can get like the following informal sentence:

baile mór 'sea é An Rinn

but this is like English, "It's a big city, New York".

However I don't think it's a normal way to construct an identification sentence.

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The dialect I use is Munster Irish, particularly Cork Irish, so words or phrases I use might not be correct for other areas.:D

Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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