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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Tue 05 Jan 2016 8:34 pm 
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Cúmhaí wrote:
This is a third question. Sorry I'm asking faster than y'all can get back to me

I noticed

ar an dochtúir
But
ar an nGaeilge

Is this because the /ng/ is not the same as /n/ so the preceding n in an doesn't negate it?


Yes, more or less so.

When there is no eclipsis or lenition and the -n in "an" would be fully pronounced it would be pronounced like [ŋ] because of following [g]:
e.g. an Gael /əŋ ge:l/
In case of eclipsis this changes to:
e.g. ar an nGael /er´ ə ŋe:l/ (loss of the [g] sound)

The difference is /ŋg/ (like in "finger") vs. single /ŋ/.


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Tue 05 Jan 2016 9:31 pm 
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Cúmhaí wrote:
And one more I forgot to mention, why this:

An mbíodh sacar á imirt agat nuair a bhí tú i do chailín?
Did you used to [be ]play[ing] soccer when you were a girl?

I would have expected
An imríteá sacar nuair a bhí tú i do chailín?



The difference between them isn't different tense but different voice (and different aspect)

The first sentence is passive voice (whysoever), habitual past, progressive:
lit.: "Was usually soccer being played by you when you were a girl?"
Progressive (continuous) aspect because playing soccer takes time.
(So perhaps like "Have you spent much time playing soccer ...")

The second sentence is active voice, habitual past, non-progressive.
But because playing soccer takes time progressive would be preferred, I think:
So, active voice progressive habitual past:
An mbíteá ag imirt sacair nuair a ...


Last edited by Labhrás on Tue 05 Jan 2016 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Tue 05 Jan 2016 10:11 pm 
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Cúmhaí wrote:
Okay so bí i do anything including chónaí have a continuous meaning like bí ag so something like Táim ag bheith i mo chónaí or similar would be meaningless and redundant.


Yes
("Tá mé ag bheith" is always impossible, btw)

Quote:
He tends not to listen when I am speaking.
Ní bhíonn sé ag éisteacht nuair atáim ag caint


Habitual progressive is used for actions of certain length done often.
So in light of the fact that you usually deliver lengthy sermons ;) habitual present progressive is okay.
But perhaps twice: ... nuair a bhím ag caint

Quote:
He doesn't listen when I'm speaking.
Ní éisteann sé nuair atáim ag caint


Here I'd guess you don't declaim perorations but give usually short advices he really should listen to.

Quote:
He didn't tend to listen when I was speaking.
Ní bhíodh sé ag éisteacht nuair a bhí mé ag caint


same as in first sentence.
Certainly habitual past twice here, I'd say: ... nuair a bhínn

Quote:
He didn't listen to me when I was speaking.
Níor éist sé nuair a bhí mé ag caint


This is non-habitual past.
So you are referring to a single event.

Quote:
What confuses me is I am more used to a simple perfect - imperfect system like Tajik than this perfect - habitual - continuous system that you've suggested might be the same as English.


Oh no, not totally the same - only in this instance.

Quote:
We didn't have a car when we used to have bikes
Ní bhíodh gluaisteán againn nuair a bhíodh rothairse againn.


Hmm, maybe.

Quote:
Or should one be ní raibh? Or should "agus" be used??


I don't know.

Quote:
What about this
I used to always listen to you but I don't anymore
D'éistínn i gcónaí leat ach ní éistim leat níos mó.


OK.


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Thu 07 Jan 2016 11:51 pm 
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Location: Baile Mhic Ghoilla Eoin, VA
Lughaidh wrote:
I'm not sure I understood your question.


Basically I had forgotten about the "dentals" rule and didn't realize that was what was going on.

Lughaidh wrote:
Munster has "ar a' nd..."


So in Munster the "dentals" rule is different? Tell me more!

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Last edited by Cúmhaí on Fri 08 Jan 2016 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Fri 08 Jan 2016 12:03 am 
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Location: Baile Mhic Ghoilla Eoin, VA
Labhrás wrote:
Habitual progressive is used for actions of certain length done often.


Wait, okay, so my assumption that the meaning was equivalent to "tend to" was incorrect. Could you give a more accurate translation of the two sentences into English or explain the difference between them more clearly, por favor? Is it just the lengthiness/wordiness like you suggested?

Ní bhíonn sé ag éisteacht nuair atáim ag caint
Ní éisteann sé nuair atáim ag caint


Labhrás wrote:
Cúmhaí wrote:
Or should one be ní raibh? Or should "agus" be used??

I don't know.

That's bad news for me if even you don't know!

Labhrás wrote:
The difference between them isn't different tense but different voice (and different aspect)

I knew about the different voice, I was just asking about the aspect. You clarified that it's because playing soccer takes time. I have encountered this (and was confused until seeing your explanation) with bí ag súgradh and bí ag imirt but could you suggest to me some other verbs that might be considered time-taking so I can get a better sense? Thanks in advance

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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Tue 27 Nov 2018 11:36 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:
Cúmhaí wrote:
Thanks guys. I have another question, too.

When does the word "déag" take séimhiú?

I have seen "a dó dhéag" "an naoú lá dhéag" "dhá bhabhla dhéag" and others

I have absolutely no idea why it is sometimes lenited but usually not.


Lenition of déag after:
- dó: a dó dhéag (compare: a trí déag)
- nouns in singular ending in a vowel: trí lá dhéag (compare: trí bliana déag)
- nouns in plural ending in slender consonant: dhá uain dhéag (except cinn: trí cinn déag)

Is it an t-aonú lá dhéag or déag? An xxú lá déag seems to be pretty common (https://www.gaois.ie/g3m/en/?txt=lá+déag&SearchMode=narrow), and you guys do the same thing (well, most of the time – see here and here).

By the way, it seems that, unlike here, diacritics break links on here – could someone please look into that?


Last edited by Esszet on Wed 28 Nov 2018 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Wed 28 Nov 2018 7:26 am 
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According to the document 'Uimhreacha na Gaeilge' written by M. Mechura (38 pages-long PDF document that describes all the rules about numbers in Irish), it is "an t-aonú lá déag", looks like "dhéag" isn't used in ordinal numbers.
Aon lá dhéag, but an t-aonú á déag.

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Wed 28 Nov 2018 1:19 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
According to the document 'Uimhreacha na Gaeilge' written by M. Mechura (38 pages-long PDF document that describes all the rules about numbers in Irish), it is "an t-aonú lá déag", looks like "dhéag" isn't used in ordinal numbers.
Aon lá dhéag, but an t-aonú lá déag.


Yes, no lenition of déag in ordinal numbers


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Wed 28 Nov 2018 2:13 pm 
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Alright, thanks guys, and and thanks for that guide, Lughaidh...38 pages...


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 Post subject: Re: Grammar Question
PostPosted: Wed 28 Nov 2018 3:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm
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The Irish system of numbers is so complicated (especially because of declensions and initial mutations) that I very often need to check that document when I have to write a number in Irish...
In Breton it's complicated too for French speakers, but in Irish it's a nightmare :LOL:

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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