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PostPosted: Mon 11 May 2015 1:58 am 
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http://www.irishcentral.com/culture/Bes ... -die-.html

A summary if you're not wanting to read it:

Notre Dame hosted a conference, chaired by Brian Ó Conchubhair and Philip O'Leary, selected 15 novels that everyone must read in Irish. Only novels were included, so memoirs (Sorry, Peig), plays, and other works were excluded. The list is below:

  • Séadna (1905) by An tAthair Peadar Ó Laoghaire
  • Deoraíocht (1910) by Pádraic Ó Conaire
  • Mo Bhealach Féin (1940) by Seosamh Mac Grianna
  • An Béal Bocht (1941) by ‘Myles na gCopaleen’
  • Cré na Cille (1949) by Máirtín Ó Cadhain
  • Néal Maidine agus Tine Oíche (1964) by Breandán Ó Doibhlin
  • Dé Luain (1966) by Eoghan Ó Tuairisc
  • Caoin Tú Féin (1967) by Diarmaid Ó Súilleabháin
  • An Uain Bheo (1968) by Diarmaid Ó Súilleabháin
  • Fuíoll Fuine (1970) by Máirtín Ó Cadhain
  • Méirscrí na Treibhe (1978) by Alan Titley
  • An Fear Dána (1993) by Alan Titley
  • Cuaifeach mo Londubh Buí (1983) by Séamas Mac Annaidh
  • Éagnairc (1994) by Pádraig Ó Siadhail
  • Desiderius a Dó (1995) by Pádraig Ó Cíobháin

After deciding that no author should be represented twice, Liam Mac Cóil's An Dochtúir Áthas (and presumably one other that's not mentioned) was added.


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PostPosted: Mon 11 May 2015 3:12 pm 
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galaxyrocker wrote:
http://www.irishcentral.com/culture/Best-novels-in-Irish-to-read-before-you-die-.html

A summary if you're not wanting to read it:

Notre Dame hosted a conference, chaired by Brian Ó Conchubhair and Philip O'Leary, selected 15 novels that everyone must read in Irish. Only novels were included, so memoirs (Sorry, Peig), plays, and other works were excluded. The list is below:

  • Séadna (1905) by An tAthair Peadar Ó Laoghaire
  • Deoraíocht (1910) by Pádraic Ó Conaire
  • Mo Bhealach Féin (1940) by Seosamh Mac Grianna
  • An Béal Bocht (1941) by ‘Myles na gCopaleen’
  • Cré na Cille (1949) by Máirtín Ó Cadhain
  • Néal Maidine agus Tine Oíche (1964) by Breandán Ó Doibhlin
  • Dé Luain (1966) by Eoghan Ó Tuairisc
  • Caoin Tú Féin (1967) by Diarmaid Ó Súilleabháin
  • An Uain Bheo (1968) by Diarmaid Ó Súilleabháin
  • Fuíoll Fuine (1970) by Máirtín Ó Cadhain
  • Méirscrí na Treibhe (1978) by Alan Titley
  • An Fear Dána (1993) by Alan Titley
  • Cuaifeach mo Londubh Buí (1983) by Séamas Mac Annaidh
  • Éagnairc (1994) by Pádraig Ó Siadhail
  • Desiderius a Dó (1995) by Pádraig Ó Cíobháin

After deciding that no author should be represented twice, Liam Mac Cóil's An Dochtúir Áthas (and presumably one other that's not mentioned) was added.


Better get cracking then! At the speed at which I read Irish, I may not have enough time left! ;)

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Mon 11 May 2015 9:17 pm 
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Séadna isn't a great book as a novel, but the Irish is excellent and the story is charming. Many native speakers who were in their old age in 1900s said it was shocking to read, as it sounded like the speech of their grandparents, which they never believed would be in a book. It's probably the book I feel the most affection for.

Mo Bhealach Féin on the other hand is an excellent novel in the proper sense of the word, but a sarcastic and harsh one, not to everybody's taste.

Cré na Cille is, well I've said before, a bollocks hard read unless you have very good Irish, I know most native speakers from Conamara have a hard time reading it even. Again very cynical and sarcastic, if you liked something like "The Field" in English you might like it. It's in the tradition of a harsh look at the hypocrisies of rural Ireland, I'd recognise a few of the characters myself, I think most from the country would. It's probably "the best" book in Irish in a literary sense.

Deoraíocht is depressing and can come off as maudlin on purpose. I'd say you have to be in the mood to read it. I actually preferred other books from Ó Conaire.

Desiderius a Dó is the only book by Ó Cíobháin I haven't read, so that's getting ordered!

An Béal Bocht, is hilarious, however I'll say you need to be widely read in Irish or the majority of the jokes will make no sense. There's jokes particular to how silly the Gaelic league was, Old Irish, over use of grammar in books about Irish, lots of stuff like that.

The rest I haven't read, but I must now.

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PostPosted: Mon 11 May 2015 9:24 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
An Béal Bocht, is hilarious, however I'll say you need to be widely read in Irish or the majority of the jokes will make no sense. There's jokes particular to how silly the Gaelic league was, Old Irish, over use of grammar in books about Irish, lots of stuff like that.

The rest I haven't read, but I must now.


What are some of the other books you suggest reading first to get a sense of the jokes?


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PostPosted: Mon 11 May 2015 10:02 pm 
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galaxyrocker wrote:
An Lon Dubh wrote:
An Béal Bocht, is hilarious, however I'll say you need to be widely read in Irish or the majority of the jokes will make no sense. There's jokes particular to how silly the Gaelic league was, Old Irish, over use of grammar in books about Irish, lots of stuff like that.

The rest I haven't read, but I must now.


What are some of the other books you suggest reading first to get a sense of the jokes?

Well number one would be "An tOileánach", it is most directly a piss take of it. However that's a big request for reading another book (An tOileánach isn't "hard" like Cré na Cille, but unless you're very familiar with Munster Irish, you'll have six dictionaries open while reading it. A guy I know from Iorras Aithneach (Cill Chiaráin) had to ask me what some of it meant, it's super-Munster Irish).

After that a good familiarity with the cadence of folk tales. If you've read some of the folklore collections in any dialect you'll recognise this. A lot of the book is about how over the top folkloric language was.

Other than that, read six or so old (pre-1940s) biographies. After a while you'll notice a certain pattern emerge, the "joke" in the book is mainly about that. Funny phrases "hyperbolic tautologies" I think Myles called them himself. Kind of like how instead of saying (I've made these up but I could find ones if you want):

Dúirt mo chomharsain....

A lot would say:

Bhí fear ann im' aice, ach ní hé im' aice amháin a bhí sé ach ina chonaí i gcóngarach dom, agus is é an tsaghas duine é ná an chomharsain in aice dhom, mo chomharsain féin gan aon agó

or rather than

Níor chonac clog nuair a bhíos óg

they had:

Ní raibh táisc ná tuairisc ar aon rud i bhfoirm chloig le linn m'óige. Chuir an cheist seo ar m'athair "A athair, ar chonicís féin aon rud i bhfoirm chloig". Thug an seanaduine stracfhéachaint ghéar im' thaobhsa agus dúirt "A bhuachaill gan chiall, níor chonac, ní chím agus ní chífead, agus beidh sé amhlaidh choíche". Bhuail sé isteach im' aigne go bhfuil seans ann ná fuil aon rud mar "chlog" ar an ndomhan so.

A chunk in the middle is a piss-take of Conradh na Gaeilge in the early 20th century. The easiest way to get a sense for that stuff would be to read Philip O'Leary's book "Prose Literature of the Gaelic revival". I got the sense from reading most of the newspapers of the time and the original novels, but it's all summed up there. The super-nationalism, the over the top Gaelic Gaels stuff, etc.

To be honest a decent shortcut would be:
1. Prose Literature of the Gaelic revival.
2. An old folklore book.
3. An old biography.

You'll be bursting with raw-Gaelic energy by then, or mar a dúirt gach Gael dár raibh cónaí air in Éirinn riamh, ní bheidh aon Ghael níos Gaelaí ná an Gael san ar a dtugtar "Galacsaírocar Ó Gaelach". Hope I'm not overstating the case and the jokes are obvious, but I think not.

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PostPosted: Tue 12 May 2015 8:20 pm 
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What are some recommended folklore books? The only ones I'm aware of are in English.


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PostPosted: Tue 12 May 2015 10:47 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
The easiest way to get a sense for that stuff would be to read Philip O'Leary's book "Prose Literature of the Gaelic revival". I got the sense from reading most of the newspapers of the time and the original novels, but it's all summed up there.
Yup, "The Prose Literature of the Gaelic Revival" is worth its weight in gold – as is the sequel "Gaelic Prose in the Irish Free State".

An Lon Dubh wrote:
You'll be bursting with raw-Gaelic energy by then, or mar a dúirt gach Gael dár raibh cónaí air in Éirinn riamh, ní bheidh aon Ghael níos Gaelaí ná an Gael san a dtugtar "Galacsaírocar Ó Gaelach". Hope I'm not overstating the case and the jokes are obvious, but I think not.
Well, said, a Loin Dhuibh!

galaxyrocker wrote:
What are some recommended folklore books?
If you're a beginner, there's:
Scéilín Ó Bhéilín (this is the one that I first started out with)

More advanced stuff:
Ó Bhéal an Bhab (Munster)
Labharfad Le Cach (Munster)
Bróga Páipéir agus Stocaí Bainne Ramhair (Connacht)

All of these books come with CD's, too! There are dozens more that come to mind, but these ones should keep you busy for a while!


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PostPosted: Tue 12 May 2015 11:45 pm 
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galaxyrocker wrote:
What are some recommended folklore books? The only ones I'm aware of are in English.


Leabhar Mhaidhc Dháith: Scéalta agus Seanchas ón Rinn (Ring)

Leabhar Stiofáin Uí Ealaoire (Clare)

Seanchas ó Chaibre

Leabhar Sheáin Í Chonaill: Sgéalta agus Seanchas ó Íbh Ráthach

Seanchas Amhlaoibh Í Luínse (Cork)

Scéalaíocht Amhlaoibh Í Luínse (Cork)

The last three are excellent as they are written in phonetic Irish, i.e. as the speaker himself pronounces them; which is amazing and should have become the standard means of recording folklore in written form. The only sad thing you realise, as you come to appreciate the expressiveness and simplicity of the language of the speaker, is how much of the language has been forgotten.

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Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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PostPosted: Wed 13 May 2015 12:02 am 
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An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
galaxyrocker wrote:
The only sad thing you realise, as you come to appreciate the expressiveness and simplicity of the language of the speaker, is how much of the language has been forgotten.



That reminds me of one of my times in Carraroe. My teacher was lamenting the death of the Gaeltacht, and, in his opinion, the authenticity of the language. He talked about how no matter how hard he tried, his Irish would never be as rich as his father's, and his daughter's would be even worse than his when it comes to the richness of expressions. It really stuck with me, as heartfelt of a lament as it was (one of many such moments during my times there).


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PostPosted: Wed 13 May 2015 2:33 pm 
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galaxyrocker wrote:
An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
galaxyrocker wrote:
The only sad thing you realise, as you come to appreciate the expressiveness and simplicity of the language of the speaker, is how much of the language has been forgotten.



That reminds me of one of my times in Carraroe. My teacher was lamenting the death of the Gaeltacht, and, in his opinion, the authenticity of the language. He talked about how no matter how hard he tried, his Irish would never be as rich as his father's, and his daughter's would be even worse than his when it comes to the richness of expressions. It really stuck with me, as heartfelt of a lament as it was (one of many such moments during my times there).


I agree with your teacher. It's a very sad truth.


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