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PostPosted: Fri 14 Oct 2011 7:53 pm 
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Taoiseach wrote:
Let me see now ... Ar son na Rí agus a ghéillsinigh

I say that because if there's a genitive version of Rí I can't remember it. The same as the plural perhaps (ríthe) ?

The genitive of is , but being masculine the article stays as an.

The genitive plural of géillsineach is géillsineach, i.e., it reverts to the singular form.

Ar son an rí agus a ghéillsineach

(@kk, etc., do we need to repeat ar son in these cases, like we do the preposition?)

(I really think do is fine here though - that way you don't have to bother with the messy genitives. :D )

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Fri 14 Oct 2011 10:15 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
(@kk, etc., do we need to repeat ar son in these cases, like we do the preposition?)

Nope. Parallel genitives are perfectly fine. In fact, if you repeat the head noun, you run the risk of changing the mean. In this case, the change in meaning would be negligible, if there at all, but if it’s a regular genitive, you might create two things owned instead of one. Compareteach mo mháthar agus m’athar with teach mo mháthar agus teach m’athar—one of them implies a divorce, while the other doesn’t!

So even if compound prepositions are often considered prepositions, they act here as what they really are: preposition + noun constructions being ‘owned’ by the object of the ‘preposition’.

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Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.


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PostPosted: Sat 15 Oct 2011 12:14 am 
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kokoshneta wrote:
Breandán wrote:
(@kk, etc., do we need to repeat ar son in these cases, like we do the preposition?)

Nope. Parallel genitives are perfectly fine. In fact, if you repeat the head noun, you run the risk of changing the mean. In this case, the change in meaning would be negligible, if there at all, but if it’s a regular genitive, you might create two things owned instead of one. Compareteach mo mháthar agus m’athar with teach mo mháthar agus teach m’athar—one of them implies a divorce, while the other doesn’t!

So even if compound prepositions are often considered prepositions, they act here as what they really are: preposition + noun constructions being ‘owned’ by the object of the ‘preposition’.

Good point. Thanks for the clarification. :good:

And does the version with do carry the meaning without resorting to ar son, do you think? I'm pretty sure it does. (Bríd, any opinion on that?)

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Sat 15 Oct 2011 1:10 am 
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Breandán wrote:
Ar son an rí agus a ghéillsineach

Are we sure the meaning intended is "For the King and his subjects"?
Seems to me it could be a third party referring to the King and seperately the People.
Just wondering. :D

"Pro rege et grege" is the Latin.
As well as being the Motto of the Pattersons it is also the motto of The Royal Danish Life Guards (in your court Koko :D )

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

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PostPosted: Sat 15 Oct 2011 3:52 am 
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They have a motto?!

I didn’t even think they were allowed to talk!

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Not a native speaker.

Always wait for at least three people to agree on a translation, especially if it’s for something permanent.

My translations are usually GU (Ulster Irish), unless CO (Standard Orthography) is requested.


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