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PostPosted: Mon 17 Mar 2014 2:41 pm 
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So I finally found an example sentence on focloir.ie which uses the Irish word for a second hand bookstore (btw, we call them "used bookstores" here in Western Massachusetts in the States, although no one would complain if they heard the word second hand bookstore). Anyhow, the following in the example sentence and its two possible translations according to that site.

You may find a copy in a second hand book shop.
1.) D'fhéadfá cóip a fháil i siopa leabhar dara láimhe.
2.) B'fhéidir go dtiocfá ar chóip i siopa leabhar dara láimhe.

As I am still new to Irish, I'm wondering if someone could help me with the plural form of this word. Would it just be siopaí leabhar dara láimhe or do you need to decline the second hand books part of that somehow too just because siopa is in the plural form now?

Thanks in advance. :)


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PostPosted: Mon 17 Mar 2014 3:06 pm 
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asenion wrote:
So I finally found an example sentence on focloir.ie which uses the Irish word for a second hand bookstore (btw, we call them "used bookstores" here in Western Massachusetts in the States, although no one would complain if they heard the word second hand bookstore). Anyhow, the following in the example sentence and its two possible translations according to that site.

You may find a copy in a second hand book shop.
1.) D'fhéadfá cóip a fháil i siopa leabhar dara láimhe.
2.) B'fhéidir go dtiocfá ar chóip i siopa leabhar dara láimhe.

As I am still new to Irish, I'm wondering if someone could help me with the plural form of this word. Would it just be siopaí leabhar dara láimhe or do you need to decline the second hand books part of that somehow too just because siopa is in the plural form now?

Thanks in advance. :)
I would usually think of 'athláimhe' for second-hand. So I would think, 'siopaí leabhar athláimhe'. I presume 'dara láimhe' and 'athláimhe' are interchangeable. Wait for others to add their tuppence worth!

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Is foghlaimeoir mé. I am a learner. DEFINITELY wait for others to confirm and/or improve.
Beatha teanga í a labhairt.


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PostPosted: Mon 17 Mar 2014 5:42 pm 
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I use réchaite for second hand. Is dara láimhe not Béarlachas?


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PostPosted: Mon 17 Mar 2014 6:47 pm 
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On Litríocht, the section for second-hand books is called - Athláimhe (though at the moment they don't have any)
In the Bhaldraithe dictionary a second-hand bookseller is - díoltóir seanleabhar
- and I've also found on Foclóir.ie - a second-hand bookshop - siopa leabhair athláimhe


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PostPosted: Tue 18 Mar 2014 2:49 pm 
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No one's directly addressed asenion's question, though, which is do all elements of the phrase change if "siopa" becomes plural. I would say not, but I admit I'm not 100% certain.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Tue 18 Mar 2014 3:00 pm 
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I suppose it would be - siopaí leabhair athláimhe - but perhaps someone will correct me if it isn't.


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PostPosted: Tue 18 Mar 2014 5:53 pm 
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I'd go for 'used bookstore'
Siopa Seanleabhar

I'd go for 'used bookstores'
Siopaí Seanleabhar


....because when a book was read and handled and no longer new it usually became a 'seanleabhar' or a 'leabhar léite', or even on occasion a 'leabhar athláimhe' depending on your humour ;)

...often heard 'leabhra' also BTW... but sure you could go on forever LOL...

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar 2014 1:44 am 
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Redwolf wrote:
No one's directly addressed asenion's question, though, which is do all elements of the phrase change if "siopa" becomes plural. I would say not, but I admit I'm not 100% certain.

Redwolf


I was wondering the same thing Redwolf. I'm certainly out of my depth on this one, but I do remember listening to a particular audio lesson awhile back and noticed that many of what I refer to as the "open compound nouns", when in the plural, had both words that comprised the noun in plural form.


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar 2014 2:11 pm 
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Redwolf wrote:
No one's directly addressed asenion's question, though, which is do all elements of the phrase change if "siopa" becomes plural. I would say not, but I admit I'm not 100% certain.

Redwolf


No, the other elements of the phrase are unaffected.

franc 91 wrote:
I suppose it would be - siopaí leabhair athláimhe - but perhaps someone will correct me if it isn't.


Yes.

[NB: 'bookshop(s)' - siopa(í) leabhar but 'second-hand bookshop(s)' - siopa(i) leabhair athláimhe/siopa(í) seanleabhar ]


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar 2014 4:38 pm 
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Errigal wrote:
Redwolf wrote:
No one's directly addressed asenion's question, though, which is do all elements of the phrase change if "siopa" becomes plural. I would say not, but I admit I'm not 100% certain.

Redwolf


No, the other elements of the phrase are unaffected.

franc 91 wrote:
I suppose it would be - siopaí leabhair athláimhe - but perhaps someone will correct me if it isn't.


Yes.

[NB: 'bookshop(s)' - siopa(í) leabhar but 'second-hand bookshop(s)' - siopa(i) leabhair athláimhe/siopa(í) seanleabhar ]


Errigal, could this be an example of the differences in "closed compound nouns" and "open compound nouns" as I pointed out in my reply to Redwolf's post ? Of course, these terms relate to English grammar and may not even exist in Irish grammar. As I am a mere babe-in-the-woods when it comes to Irish grammar, I don't know. However, I do see in your examples that indeed, when the English closed compound noun "bookshops" is translated into Irish, you have it as "siopaí leabhar", but when the English open compound noun "second-hand bookshops" is translated into Irish, you have it as "siopaí leabhair athláimhe". I think this is the crux of the original post ? As always, I cede to the wisdom of those more knowledgeable than myself :)


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