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PostPosted: Sat 28 Dec 2013 7:52 pm 
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Can somebody help, please

I am ploughing my way through the caighdeán athbhreithnithe and have just realised that I do not understand the Ainm Briathartha. (I know about ....ing!) I got a glimpse of understanding from the website http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/verbnom.htm, I have a smattering of understanding of the following from page 63 of the Caighdeán Athbhreithnithe but not much more than that. Somthing about the ginideach of the ainm briathartha having the form of the aidiacht bhriathartha, I think!

más ainm briathartha an chéad ainmfhocal, déantar athrú an ghinidigh air i ndiaidh ainmfhocail, e.g., madra cosanta na monarchan, bean fuascailte na ceiste, beach cealgtha an pháiste, innill buailte an arbhair, seachtain bailithe na rátaí.


Then I moved on to the following (page 64-65) and am lost again. The ainm briathartha is what is causing me the problem.
3.2.6
má tá gnáthghinideach de réir ceann éigin de na díochlaontaí ar ainmfhocal éiginnte, a úsáidtear mar ainm briathartha freisin, is iondúil go ndéantar athrú an ghinidigh air:—
ag tabhairt léime
ag imirt iomána
ag iarraidh troda (= ag lorg troda).

Ach, ní dhéantar athrú an ghinidigh ar an ainmfhocal nuair a úsáidtear mar ainm briathartha é:—
ag iarraidh léim
ag iarraidh iomáint
ag iarraidh troid (= ag iarraidh troid a dhéanamh).


Go raibh míle maith agaibh


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PostPosted: Sat 28 Dec 2013 8:04 pm 
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Basically, the first is a basic action -driving a carr, fighting etc

The second is more cognitive and involves the infinitive: looking to fight, looking to hurl, looking to jump


As you probably know, Irish doesn't have an infinitive form like English, so the verbal noun is used instead

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PostPosted: Sat 28 Dec 2013 8:22 pm 
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Go raibh maith agat as an bhfreagra,a Jay Bee
Ach ni thuigim é.

ag iarraidh troda (= ag lorg troda).
Tá an ceann seo sa chéad ghrúrpa.

Looks to me like looking to fight as you mentioned for the second group.

Also I don't understand the meaning before the examples either.

GRMA


Dála an scéil, tá an caighdeán le fáil ar

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/abo ... oifigiuil/
más maith le héinne é a léamh.


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PostPosted: Sat 28 Dec 2013 8:50 pm 
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Since 'looking for a fight' could mean a) looking for where a fight is happening or b) looking to fight, the question is one of ostensible usage vs. metaphoric, in a sense, that is, are you speaking literally or non-literally?

Ag iarraidh troid would be looking to get into a fight and ag iarraidh troda would be looking for where a fight is going on (tho one would imagine them being used interchangeably unless you were a spectator or something)

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PostPosted: Sat 28 Dec 2013 9:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat 17 Sep 2011 11:52 pm
Posts: 460
teileann wrote:
Can somebody help, please

I am ploughing my way through the caighdeán athbhreithnithe and have just realised that I do not understand the Ainm Briathartha. (I know about ....ing!) I got a glimpse of understanding from the website http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/verbnom.htm, I have a smattering of understanding of the following from page 63 of the Caighdeán Athbhreithnithe but not much more than that. Somthing about the ginideach of the ainm briathartha having the form of the aidiacht bhriathartha, I think!

más ainm briathartha an chéad ainmfhocal, déantar athrú an ghinidigh air i ndiaidh ainmfhocail, e.g., madra cosanta na monarchan, bean fuascailte na ceiste, beach cealgtha an pháiste, innill buailte an arbhair, seachtain bailithe na rátaí.


Then I moved on to the following (page 64-65) and am lost again. The ainm briathartha is what is causing me the problem.
3.2.6
má tá gnáthghinideach de réir ceann éigin de na díochlaontaí ar ainmfhocal éiginnte, a úsáidtear mar ainm briathartha freisin, is iondúil go ndéantar athrú an ghinidigh air:—
ag tabhairt léime
ag imirt iomána
ag iarraidh troda (= ag lorg troda).

Ach, ní dhéantar athrú an ghinidigh ar an ainmfhocal nuair a úsáidtear mar ainm briathartha é:—
ag iarraidh léim
ag iarraidh iomáint
ag iarraidh troid (= ag iarraidh troid a dhéanamh).


Go raibh míle maith agaibh


JBee has explained this quite nicely, but here's a suggestion I've been thinking about:


ag iarraidh léime
ag iarraidh iomána
ag iarraidh troda

...is grand of course

...but if you can imagine 'a bheith ag'... if you can put this in then you have:

ag iarraidh (a bheith ag) léim
ag iarraidh (a bheith ag) iomáint
ag iarraidh (a bheith ag) troid

.... thus giving you

ag iarraidh léim
ag iarraidh iomáint
ag iarraidh troid

...this method might help when you are thinking in Irish and need to know pretty quickly.

Hope this helps a little...

Bíodh bliain mhór mhaith nua ad...

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Bí cinnte de go nglacfaidh triúr le gach aistriúchán a thabharfar.
Be sure to get three in agreement with a translation given.


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PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013 6:13 am 
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Quote:
Then I moved on to the following (page 64-65) and am lost again. The ainm briathartha is what is causing me the problem.
3.2.6
má tá gnáthghinideach de réir ceann éigin de na díochlaontaí ar ainmfhocal éiginnte, a úsáidtear mar ainm briathartha freisin, is iondúil go ndéantar athrú an ghinidigh air:—
ag tabhairt léime
ag imirt iomána
ag iarraidh troda (= ag lorg troda).


It may help to explain the use of the genitive by thinking of these structures this way: "at the ___-ing of ____"
For example
ag imirt iomána
"at the playing of hurling"

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PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013 8:35 am 
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Posts: 25
Go raibh míle maith agaibh
Tá an ceo ag éirí. (go mall)


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PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013 6:45 pm 
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teileann wrote:
Tá an ceo ag éirí. (go mall)
Tá an ceo ag éirí níos measa nó níos fearr......? :winkgrin:

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Beatha teanga í a labhairt.


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PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013 8:55 pm 
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Joined: Sat 29 Jun 2013 6:33 pm
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Tá sé níos fearr nach bhfuil an méid sin ceo ann a thuilleadh!

Thosaigh mé ar chaibidil 10 den chaighdeán athbhreithnithe inniu.
Bhí mé ag iarraidh na rialacha seo a fhoghlaim le fada an lá.
Mar a deirtear Be careful what you wish for!


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PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013 9:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat 17 Sep 2011 11:52 pm
Posts: 460
teileann wrote:
Tá sé níos fearr nach bhfuil an méid sin ceo ann a thuilleadh!

Thosaigh mé ar chaibidil 10 den chaighdeán athbhreithnithe inniu.
Bhí mé ag iarraidh na rialacha seo a fhoghlaim le fada an lá.
Mar a deirtear Be careful what you wish for!



Go bhfios dom féin, níor glacadh leis an gCaighdeán nua seo. Níl cead ag aistritheoirí gairmiúla úsáid a bhaint as ina gcuid oibre proifisiúnta. Feictear domsa nach bhfuil dul amú ar bith ann tríd is tríd agus is mór an trua é nár glacadh leis mar chaighdeán oifigiúil, mar ní beag é mar chéim chun tosaigh.
Bíodh togha na bliana nua agat.

As far as I am aware, this new Caighdeán has not been approved. Official translators are not allowed use it in professional work. I cannot see anything in it that is too far wrong at all at all. It is sad that it has not been approved as I believe it is a step forward.
Have a nice new year.

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Bí cinnte de go nglacfaidh triúr le gach aistriúchán a thabharfar.
Be sure to get three in agreement with a translation given.


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