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PostPosted: Sun 14 Apr 2013 4:12 pm 
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Someone recently suggested to me that the American expression 'Can you dig it?' came from 'An dtuigeann tú?' An bhfuil sé sin fíor? Is there any truth to that?

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Apr 2013 4:50 pm 
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I dig what you're saying, but I doubt it has anything to do with tuigim.


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Apr 2013 4:56 pm 
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WeeFalorieMan wrote:
I dig what you're saying, but I doubt it has anything to do with tuigim.
:LOL:

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Apr 2013 5:09 pm 
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Saoirse wrote:
WeeFalorieMan wrote:
I dig what you're saying, but I doubt it has anything to do with tuigim.
:LOL:

Geez, WFM, haven't you twigged yet?

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
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PostPosted: Sun 14 Apr 2013 5:38 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
Geez, WFM, haven't you twigged yet?
er … ní thuigim …


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Apr 2013 1:03 am 
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Actually, from what I've been able to find, there was significant interaction between the Irish community and the African-American jazz/blues community (which is where the original expression "you dig?" -- meaning "do you understand?" came from. It's never been a general American term, but rather one that started in jazz and was eventually picked up by hippy culture. It later came to mean "like" (as in "can you dig it?") as well as "understand," but the original expression was definitely "you dig?"), so it seems very plausible to me. Another thing of note is the similarity between sean-nós dancing and African-American tap dancing.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Apr 2013 5:24 am 
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Redwolf wrote:
Actually, from what I've been able to find, there was significant interaction between the Irish community and the African-American jazz/blues community (which is where the original expression "you dig?" -- meaning "do you understand?" came from. It's never been a general American term, but rather one that started in jazz and was eventually picked up by hippy culture. It later came to mean "like" (as in "can you dig it?") as well as "understand," but the original expression was definitely "you dig?"), so it seems very plausible to me. Another thing of note is the similarity between sean-nós dancing and African-American tap dancing.

Redwolf


And that would fit with other terms in the jazz community (and later the beatnik community) that may have come from Irish, including the word "jazz" itself (from deas) and the word Daddy-O, from the Irish Daideo.

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Apr 2013 3:21 pm 
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CaoimhínSF wrote:
And that would fit with other terms in the jazz community (and later the beatnik community) that may have come from Irish, including the word "jazz" itself (from deas) and the word Daddy-O, from the Irish Daideo.

This strikes me as begging the question. There's no solid evidence for any of these proposed etymologies and, in fact, the earliest attestations speak against it. Jazz, for instance, is attested as a noun before and adjective and in a baseball context before being applied to music.

I don't think there's any real need for an Irish etymology for "you dig?" "Understand" is a natural extension of the core meaning of "excavate". To "dig into something" is to research it.


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Apr 2013 4:57 pm 
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Domhnaillín Breac wrote:
CaoimhínSF wrote:
And that would fit with other terms in the jazz community (and later the beatnik community) that may have come from Irish, including the word "jazz" itself (from deas) and the word Daddy-O, from the Irish Daideo.

This strikes me as begging the question. There's no solid evidence for any of these proposed etymologies and, in fact, the earliest attestations speak against it. Jazz, for instance, is attested as a noun before and adjective and in a baseball context before being applied to music.

I don't think there's any real need for an Irish etymology for "you dig?" "Understand" is a natural extension of the core meaning of "excavate". To "dig into something" is to research it.

I personally don't think there is any real connection between tuig and "dig", although I don't discount the possibility.

However, a connection between tuig and "twig" does seem quite plausible.

For the derivation of "twig", SOED (Shorter Oxford) simply says "Origin unknown". I often see this even in cases where there is a word in Irish that clearly has the same meaning as the English.

How does one go about finding out if a particular line of investigation has already been pursued and discounted or whether the people involved simply aren't aware of the Irish Gaelic word and a possible connection thereto?

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Apr 2013 5:17 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
How does one go about finding out if a particular line of investigation has already been pursued and discounted or whether the people involved simply aren't aware of the Irish Gaelic word and a possible connection thereto?
I have absolutely no idea, but just wanted to add that this is an excellent question! :mrgreen: I look forward to someone providing the answer. 8-)

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