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PostPosted: Fri 05 Apr 2013 5:29 pm 
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Some people see compound words like that as not being traditionally Irish, but the use of compound words like that goes back to at least the time of the Norse invasions. The Norse settlers who learned Irish had trouble with putting adjectives after nouns, so they often put them before the noun, which is how names like Dubh Linn ("black pool" = Dublin) and Leixlip ("salmon leap") were created.


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Really? Who says that? I just read the Táin and it is filled with epithets like finnbennach "white-horned", dóeltenga "beetle-tongued", echbél "horse-lipped", rúadruca "red-blushing", and the like. (And I know that it wasn't written down until after the Vikings invaded but (a) the original core is thought to be much older and (b) there's precious little else in the work that could be ascribed to Norse influence.) Moreover, we find this sort of composition in the earliest attestations of every Indo-European language, even if it later becomes obsolete. (Latin is an excellent example of this.)

So I think you might be able to say that these sorts of compounds increased in areas of Norse influence (that's certainly the case in the North of France, for instance), but it's definitely an exaggeration to say that they originate with the Northmen.


This is really interesting question.

I always wandered why there are so many old Irish names in which have adjectives before nouns. I don't think this has anything to do with the Vikings as we see them (invaders which came first in the 9th century). I however suspect that this could have something to do with the Germanic and Slavic influence from south Baltic or the "fomorians" who have been living in Ireland and Scotland from at least 4th century ad (the earliest "viking" type houses were dated from that period, and the latest finds on the crannog in ulster are pushing this to the 2nd century ad). The artifacts and houses are of distinct south Baltic type and not the Norse type.

For instance you have names like RuaRi which Uses word Rua for Red which is very close to germano slavic rud, rus and rua and not derg and it is puting adjective before the noun???

Also most toponimes and hydronimes of celtic origine in central Europe have adjective before the noun:

Gaelic word for “big” is Mór. (Pronounced as the English word more)
Gaelic word for “river” is Abhainn . (Pronounced “awon” similar to the English word award). Proto celtic word is awa.

In central Earope thee are numerous rivers called Morava.

Morava = mor + ava = Mór Abhainn = Mor Awa= big river

Morava is the biggest river in Serbia and also in Czech republic. These rivers gave the name to the territory upper and lover Moravia .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Morava
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morava_(river)

Today in eastern Serbia Vlasi (Vlahi) say “mare” for big. Celts called themselves “Valahi”…

In Ireland there is a river named The Avonmore River (Irish: Abhainn Mór, meaning "big river")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Avonmore

All of this is very interesting.


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PostPosted: Sat 06 Apr 2013 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon 29 Aug 2011 3:36 am
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As has been pointed out on other threads, this kind of information does not meet the standard of evidence for linguistic study. If we had more people who were willing and able to debate this, I wouldn't have a problem with letting the discussion continue because others could learn from it. However, we don't have many linguists on this forum, and it's not fair to expect them to devote so much time to this. Therefore, I split your thread onto a new post and am locking it. Any other posts along these lines will be handled similarly.

If you'd like to re-open the discussion, please feel free to contact one of the moderators.

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