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PostPosted: Fri 14 Sep 2012 1:08 am 
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Mick wrote:
Saoirse wrote:
So that's the whiff I sometimes get when I log on to ILF......! :mrgreen:

If it's a kind of rugged, manly "whiff" then I'll take responsibility for it. :D But if I've been drinking Guiness, then hold your nose. :guiness:

Back on topic: here's a tricky word that caught me out in lesson 5, an tseana-scoil (the old school).

I know that "an" puts a t in front of feminine words beginning with s, but you normally don't do it with scoil because "an tscoil" would be impossible to pronounce. So I never thought about putting the t onto seana-scoil.


"Sco" constructions can't be lenited, however, its not "scoil" that you are leniting but "sean", and "sea" constructions can be.

In compound words the prefixed adjective adopts the gender of the following noun.

sean adopts the feminine scoil: an tseana-scoil, an tseana-mháthair, an tseana-Ghaoluinn

but

"an sean-athair", "an seana-bhuachaill"

The words don't need to be hyphanised.

other exaples:

"an phríomhscoil" but "an príomhd(h)oras"

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Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ
(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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PostPosted: Mon 17 Sep 2012 10:45 am 
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Just a general point for everybody working their way through this book, no matter where you are in it, about the dual.

The nominative dual has the same form as the dative singular:
ar an bhfuinneoig = on the window
dhá fhuinneoig = two windows

Typically it is formed by taking the genitive and knocking of the final e.

Some words since they have irregular datives, have irregular duals:

ar an mboin = on the cows
dhá bhoin = two cows

However I want to say that the dual is rarer today than the dative, even though both have the same form. There are people who say:
ar an mboin
dhá bhó

Since every number after a haon sort of insulates the noun after it, you usually don't have to worry about genitive duals or dative duals. Traditionally some nouns had a genitive dual which was different to their nominative dual, but the same as the genitive plural. Examples are súil (g.d. súl), glúin (g.d. glún), bliain (g.d. blian). You'll see these if you read Peadar Ua Laoghaire, Peig, Tomás Ó Criomhthain or other old Munster writers. I can gather a few examples if anybody would like.

Also, quite often, the nominative today is not what it used to be. For example glúin, used to be glún, this is because the dative replaced the nominative. Now the usual rule is that the genitive plural is the same as the nominative singular (for weak plurals :prof: ). However this often leaves the genitive plural the same as the old nominative singular.

An ghlúin = The knee.
Gealacáin a nglún = The caps of their knees.

Last note:
Adjectives don't have a dual form, even though they have a dative form:

ar an mboin mhóir (móir in Peadar Ua Laoghaire's time)
dhá bhoin mhór

Also adjective don't get inflected after numbers larger than a haon, they stay in the nominative.

Trí bhád mhóra = The three boats (notice adjective in plural, even though noun is not)
Ramhaí na dtrí mbád mhóra = Oars of the three boats (notice trí, cheithre, chúig and sé take an urú and so do the adjective following them in the genitive plural.)

More complete number rules here:
http://irishlearner.awyr.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1472&p=12317&hilit=numbers#p12317

Now you might understand why one of my proudest Munster Irish moments was when I correctly asked for "the lids of these three saucepans" in Corca Dhuibhne.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


Last edited by An Lon Dubh on Tue 18 Sep 2012 8:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon 17 Sep 2012 11:11 am 
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an ghlúin nach ea?


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PostPosted: Mon 17 Sep 2012 11:14 am 
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Gumbi wrote:
an ghlúin nach ea?

Aililiú! :GRMA:

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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PostPosted: Mon 24 Sep 2012 9:07 am 
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I finished chapters 5 and 6 on the perfect tense and the verbal noun and thought that I'd check in. It seemed like Chapter 6 added a lot more vocabulary words than previous chapters and the verb forms that it introduced gave me fits until I went back and drilled myself on the different endings and particles. Personally, I'm finding up to this point that the verb forms and other features of the language make the Irish --> English exercises a breeze but make getting the English -->Irish portion of the exercises a complete bastard to get completely correct. I always manage to forget a particle, screw up some lenition/eclipsis rule or not put a noun in the proper case, even though I don't have any problem recognizing these things in the Irish. I managed to get most of the questions in exc. 14 in Chpt. 6 wrong in some way or other (though I was having to rush a little more than I would have liked) after not making any mistakes on the Irish to English portion. On the whole, things are moving along smoothly enough, though. Probably the biggest flaw with TYI is that there aren't enough exercises to really master the material.

So, that's 6 chapters down and 21 to go. I keep hoping that I'll find some time to jump ahead a few chapters, but it hasn't happened yet.


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PostPosted: Tue 25 Sep 2012 12:05 am 
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Location: Hamilton, NJ, USA
Matt wrote:
I finished chapters 5 and 6 on the perfect tense and the verbal noun and thought that I'd check in. It seemed like Chapter 6 added a lot more vocabulary words than previous chapters and the verb forms that it introduced gave me fits until I went back and drilled myself on the different endings and particles. Personally, I'm finding up to this point that the verb forms and other features of the language make the Irish --> English exercises a breeze but make getting the English -->Irish portion of the exercises a complete bastard to get completely correct. I always manage to forget a particle, screw up some lenition/eclipsis rule or not put a noun in the proper case, even though I don't have any problem recognizing these things in the Irish. I managed to get most of the questions in exc. 14 in Chpt. 6 wrong in some way or other (though I was having to rush a little more than I would have liked) after not making any mistakes on the Irish to English portion. On the whole, things are moving along smoothly enough, though. Probably the biggest flaw with TYI is that there aren't enough exercises to really master the material.

So, that's 6 chapters down and 21 to go. I keep hoping that I'll find some time to jump ahead a few chapters, but it hasn't happened yet.


I had the same problem with the limited exercises. I have taken to using exercises from the Basic Irish and Intermediate Irish units that cover whichever grammar point, just for the practice. Only problem is it's standard Irish, but if one is careful about that it helps. Well, it helps me, anyway.

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Táim ag foghlaim Gaelainn na Mumhan

Tá fáilte roim nach aon cheartú!
I am a learner. Any translations offered are practice and should not be used unless confirmed.


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PostPosted: Tue 25 Sep 2012 9:57 pm 
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An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
You can still get your hands on the original copy, but its extremely difficult to. You might have better luck if you type in Ci/ínnlae Amhlaoibh Uí Shuilleabháin, Cinnlae is the older spelling. Cín is a very old Irish word for book, whereas "lae" is day- "day book".

People need to realise that these books are not just useful for historical research but also because of the language that's used in them. Thankfully De Bhaldraithe has kept the originals for some words like: gus (go dtí). noch/ ór (mar), chum (chun), d' éis (tar-éis). In fairness to De Bhaldraithe he has also given an explanation on how he standardised the contents and the difficulty in doing so. He also has an extensive foclóir at the back of the book and also in the back he has categorised the book into themes and where it is possible to find such themes within the core of the book. That was very helpful for a college essay I had to write.

Its a well thought out book, but its just a pity that it had to be standardised.

Well I'm reading it at the moment, I really want to get my hands on the original printing, but I have to say Amhlaoibh is some character, he's very descriptive in the sex scenes! I must post up some of the short historically interesting sections for people here. Funnily enough, in one part he makes love in front of a waterfall (Eas) with some local girl (not his wife, who was off somewhere else), however on first reading I understood it as weasal (also Eas) and I thought "They had sex in front of a big weasal, what?!". Luckily the article (an t-eas, not an eas) clued me in soon enough!

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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PostPosted: Wed 26 Sep 2012 7:12 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
"They had sex in front of a big weasal, what?!".
Now, there's a tattoo request we are unlikely to get here on ILF!

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Is foghlaimeoir mé. I am a learner. DEFINITELY wait for others to confirm and/or improve.
Beatha teanga í a labhairt.


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PostPosted: Wed 26 Sep 2012 7:45 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
"They had sex in front of a big weasal, what?!".

This Amhlaoibh does sound like a bit of an eas.

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Wed 26 Sep 2012 8:19 pm 
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Saoirse wrote:
An Lon Dubh wrote:
"They had sex in front of a big weasal, what?!".
Now, there's a tattoo request we are unlikely to get here on ILF!

Well, if you do, I can be relied on to give you it in genuine 19th century Déise Irish.

Quote:
This Amhlaoibh does sound like a bit of an eas.

:LOL: He certainly is.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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