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PostPosted: Thu 08 Aug 2013 12:44 pm 
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Bíonn an coileach ag fógairt an lae le 'Mac na h-Óige slán'.

It was a tragedy that so much was lost with the loss of the people who spoke the language, and it wasn't so very long ago that it happened. A recent airing of an interview between Nollaig Ó Gabhra (maybe spelled incorrectly) and the native speaker Máirtín Ua Fathaigh from just outside Baile Locha Riach i gCo. na Gaillimhe highlights this. Máirtín was born in 1870, and the interview took place in 1970 when he was one hundred years of age. There were also other native speakers living around Baile Locha Riach at the time of the interview, and also B'l'Á'n Rí. Nollaig was from Luimneach and was not a native speaker. An advanced learner in my opinion, Nollaig spoke Gaedhilge na Mumhan, and his manner was too direct and patronising. A man like Máirtín Ua Fathaigh needed a native speaker from Conamara such as Máirtín Tom Sheáinín or somebody of that ilk to get the best from him.


Last edited by Seaghan on Thu 08 Aug 2013 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu 08 Aug 2013 3:27 pm 
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Seaghan wrote:
Bíonn an coileach ag fógairt an lae le 'Mac na h-Óige slán'.

It was a tragedy that so much was lost with the loss of the people who spoke the language, and it wasn't so very long ago that it happened. A recent airing of an interview between Nollaig Ó Gabhra (maybe spelled incorrectly) and the native speaker Máirtín Ua Fathaigh from just outside Baile Locha Riach i gCo. na Gaillimhe highlights this. Máirtín was born in 1870, and the interview took place in 1970 when he was one hundred years of age. There were also other native speakers living around Baile Locha Riach at the time of the interview, and also B'l'Á'n Ríogh. Nollaig was from Luimneach and was not a native speaker. An advanced learner in my opinion, Nollaig spoke Gaedhilge na Mumhan, and his manner was too direct and patronising. A man like Máirtín Ua Fathaigh needed a native speaker from Conamara such as Máirtín Tom Sheáinín or somebody of that ilk to get the best from him.


Gaedhilge na Mumhan? What's that?


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PostPosted: Thu 08 Aug 2013 6:31 pm 
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Quote:
Gaedhilge na Mumhan? What's that?


It means "the Irish of Munster", or the Munster dialect of Irish, spoken in the southwest. Actually, there are a range of local dialects there, but they fit largely into a pattern known as the Munster dialect. Gaedhilge is a variant (older) spelling of Gaeilge.

Just to belabor the point (because I have time on my hands), here's some historical info which I've posted before about the history behind the English names for the provinces:

The English versions of the names of three of Ireland's four provinces were created by Viking (Norse) settlers in Ireland, in their own Norse version of Irish. They left Connacht alone, as even Cromwell did, but for the other three provinces they took the Irish forms and put them into their own their own Germanic grammatical format. In Irish, the historical names for the provinces are as follows:
Ulster = Ulaidh [Cúige Uladh = Province of Ulaidh”]
Leinster = Laighin [Cúige Laighean = “Province of Laighin”]
Munster = Mumhain [Cúige Mumhan = “Province of Muster”]
Connacht = Connachta [Cúige Chonnacht = “Province of Connacht”]

The Norsemen eventually became assimilated into the surrounding Irish population and became Irish speakers (or Gaelic speakers in Scotland), and a number of Norse words entered the Irish language, such as bád for “boat”, seolta for “sail”, and fuinnneog for “window” (= “wind eye”). At an intermediate stage, though, the Norsemen sometimes applied Norse grammar to Irish names and words.

Norse was a Germanic language (as is English), and adjectives or descriptors normally preceded the noun/subject, whereas in Irish they normally come after the noun/subject. That is why we have in English “the red book”, whereas the Irish is an leabhar dearg (literally, “the book red”). They also had a different way of creating the “Genitive case” of a noun, used to show possession. In English we say “Peter’s book”, using the added “s” to show possession or attribution (the genitive case), whereas in Irish one takes the words Peadar (Peter) and leabhar (book) to create leabhar Peadair, meaning “book of Peter”, where the added “i” placed inside Peada[i]r shows the genitive nature of the word (the “of” part of “of Peter”), and there is often an accompanying pronunciation difference.

What the Norsemen did with the Irish names of the provinces shows the same Germanic approach. Instead of using the word cúige, they shifter to the Irish word tír, which means “land” or “country”. Then they reversed the order of the words and used the Norse/Germanic “s” to show the genitive case, resulting in the following:
Ulaidh + s + tír = Ulster = "Ulaidh's land" [or “land of Ulaidh”]
Mumhain + s + tír = Munster = "Mumhain's land" [or “land of Mumhain”]
Laighin + s + tír = Leinster = "Laighin's land" [or “land of Laighin”]

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


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PostPosted: Thu 08 Aug 2013 6:40 pm 
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CaoimhínSF wrote:
Quote:
Gaedhilge na Mumhan? What's that?


It means "the Irish of Munster", or the Munster dialect of Irish, spoken in the southwest. Actually, there are a range of local dialects there, but they fit largely into a pattern known as the Munster dialect.


I think Patrick was being sarcastic :?: :LOL:

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Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ
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Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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PostPosted: Thu 08 Aug 2013 6:45 pm 
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Quote:
I think Patrick was being sarcastic


Oops, I didn't realize that. Oh, well ...

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PostPosted: Thu 08 Aug 2013 8:49 pm 
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CaoimhínSF wrote:
Quote:
I think Patrick was being sarcastic


Oops, I didn't realize that. Oh, well ...



No problem. I always find your explanations very interesting.

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Aug 2013 8:57 pm 
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What about:

Connacht +s +tír= Connster?


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PostPosted: Thu 08 Aug 2013 9:39 pm 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
CaoimhínSF wrote:
Quote:
I think Patrick was being sarcastic


Oops, I didn't realize that. Oh, well ...



No problem. I always find your explanations very interesting.


:yes:

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Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ
(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Aug 2013 7:31 pm 
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An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
Bríd Mhór wrote:
CaoimhínSF wrote:
Quote:
I think Patrick was being sarcastic
Oops, I didn't realize that. Oh, well ...
No problem. I always find your explanations very interesting.
:yes:

:yes:

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[hr]Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher[/hr]
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Dec 2025 2:17 pm 
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Went searching for an onomatapoia thread and found this old one - this is something I've wondered about Irish since I learned years ago that a frog says "kwak-kwak' and a cow says "booooo" in Dutch. You would think this is prime material for teaching young kids but I never remember it coming up through school.

My small contribution here is I believe that the post earlier in the thread that ducks say "bhac bhac" can be confirmed in the lovely sean-nós song An Lacha Bacach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHa4jv7uOLo

https://songsinirish.com/?song=an-lacha-bacach-lyrics

Tar liomsa im’ dhóid
Chun go dtomhaisfead do chneá
Is ná bí chomh glórach ní ceol do bhac bhac
Idir bhriseadh `gus leonadh tá ainnise mhór ort
Is is céasadh san domhsa mo lacha bhacach.


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