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 Post subject: Re: Lenition Question
PostPosted: Fri 15 Jun 2012 2:05 am 
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ChristyD wrote:
So if for the name Brendan, it would be "a Bhrendain" then?

"Brendan" is English so you wouldn't normally lenite it or otherwise modify it.

The Irish equivalent is Breandán, which is changed as follows:

Breandán => a Bhreandáin
BiRHAN-dawn => uh VRHAN-dawñ
/b´r´æ:Ndɑ:N/ => /ə w´r´æ:Ndɑ:n´/

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: Lenition Question
PostPosted: Fri 15 Jun 2012 4:32 am 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
The i is added for male names basically (although not all male names).
It indicates that the last consonant has changed from one type (slender)
to another type (broad).


it's the contrary ;)

:facepalm: The stupid stuff you do when you type too fast!

Go raibh maith agat! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Lenition Question
PostPosted: Fri 15 Jun 2012 11:31 pm 
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Gumbi wrote:
Benjamin wrote:
Quote:
All first names are lenited, except maybe some names borrowed from English.


Ah no, in the Gaeltacht you hear a Mhichael, a Sharah, a Mhary etc

Not technically correct, though :D


Tuighe?


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 Post subject: Re: Lenition Question
PostPosted: Fri 15 Jun 2012 11:33 pm 
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I think people don't lenite "Tom" either (although they lenite Tomás)... depends on the name, but some English names & some of their variants aren't lenited


Yes because a Thom isn't clear in speech, names wont be lenited if it would sound awkward/difficult.


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 Post subject: Re: Lenition Question
PostPosted: Sat 16 Jun 2012 12:39 am 
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Well, if people were used to, it would be clear... people do say "a Sheáin", "a Shíle", "a Shéamais", "a Fhearghail", although they sound quite different from the unlenited forms.
But to me "Tom" is simply an English diminutive of Thomas, it's not an Irish one (which is "Tomáisín", I guess), and I think it's the reason it isn't lenited. The initial T is pronounced as in English, isn't it? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Lenition Question
PostPosted: Sat 16 Jun 2012 9:07 am 
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Benjamin wrote:
Gumbi wrote:
Benjamin wrote:
Quote:
All first names are lenited, except maybe some names borrowed from English.


Ah no, in the Gaeltacht you hear a Mhichael, a Sharah, a Mhary etc

Not technically correct, though :D


Tuighe?

'Sé mo thuiscint féin nach gcuirtear rialacha gramadaí na Gaeilge i bhfeidhm ar fhocail Béarla. Ní hé sin le rá nach ndéantar é i rith cainte nádúrtha.


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 Post subject: Re: Lenition Question
PostPosted: Sat 16 Jun 2012 1:26 pm 
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I used to go to a school in Cearnóg Pharnell in Dublin. That was always the given address. As far as I know, the road signs (which can be outrageously wrong, like most - yes most - signs in Irish!) now say Cearnóg Parnell. AFAIK this is correct. Foreign names should not be lenited in standard Irish. There is a logic to this, but equally there is a logic to people who speak Irish wanting to apply the normal rules of Irish to these words - adding a h to show possession just comes naturally. On the other hand the TV 'star', Hector, who is not a native speaker by any means was interviewing Bob Geldof and said 'Slán, a Bhob' (pronounced wob!) at the end. It sounded (purposely) ridiculous.

So that clears up nothing at all, but shure tis all about the discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Lenition Question
PostPosted: Sat 16 Jun 2012 6:40 pm 
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Scooby wrote:
So that clears up nothing at all, but shure tis all about the discussion.
What an excellent ending to a contribution! :LOL:

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 Post subject: Re: Lenition Question
PostPosted: Sun 17 Jun 2012 11:47 pm 
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So it sounds like a native speaker in an Irish speaking area would probably lenite "Brendan" even though it's not technically correct since it's an English spelling?


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 Post subject: Re: Lenition Question
PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun 2012 9:50 am 
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I'd certainly think so, especially given that it's pretty close to a Bhreandáin.


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