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 Post subject: Qualifying a noun
PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014 11:26 am 
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The phrase , Srón fhada dhíreach , means a long straight nose.

Srón is feminine , so the qualifying noun gets a séimhiú.
Is the díreach also getting a séimhiú as it is also qualifying the noun ?

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 Post subject: Re: Qualifying a noun
PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014 2:36 pm 
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Yes the following adjectives would all be lenited, and as far as I know the dental rule doesn't apply here.
Srón theann dheas - a strong beautiful nose

Although as always in Irish there are bound to be exceptions :)


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 Post subject: Re: Qualifying a noun
PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014 3:44 pm 
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dental rule?

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 Post subject: Re: Qualifying a noun
PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014 6:27 pm 
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AKA "N blocking".

Sometimes an N at the end of a word can prevent lenition of dentals (sounds pronounced with the tongue touching the teeth). The dentals, the DeNTaLs, are DNTL. Because your tongue should already be touching your teeth to pronounce the N, leniting would be difficult, so often you don't bother.

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 Post subject: Re: Qualifying a noun
PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014 7:19 pm 
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The dental rule would apply in the speech of older Gaeltacht speakers, but it's gradually disappearing in this case.

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 Post subject: Re: Qualifying a noun
PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014 8:08 pm 
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Dáithí Mac Giolla. wrote:
dental rule?


Should have been dentals, sorry.

The DeNTaLS rule is about the dropping of lenition. It doesn’t really have anything to do with teeth, it just uses the word dentals as a mnemonic.
Any D;T; or S, that would in normal circumstances be lenited, is not lenited when the word before it ends in D;N;T;L; or S,
m.s. seanbhean but seanduine; sghairdín but sdearg, etc.. OK I’ve used prefixes there instead of separate words but the idea is the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Qualifying a noun
PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014 8:56 pm 
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Yeah, as MacBoo said: D,T,S don't get lenited after D,N,T,L,S:

cóta an dochtúra

Even though you would expect dhochtúra.

Although this rule is often ignored with adjectives:

Srón dhíreach

Lughaidh wrote:
The dental rule would apply in the speech of older Gaeltacht speakers, but it's gradually disappearing in this case.

Do you mean younger speakers don't apply the dental rule as much, i.e. they would say cóta an dhochtúra; or do you mean they are applying it in the case of adjectives were older speakers didn't, i.e. Srón díreach?

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 Post subject: Re: Qualifying a noun
PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014 9:06 pm 
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Quote:
Do you mean younger speakers don't apply the dental rule as much, i.e. they would say cóta an dhochtúra; or do you mean they are applying i


i didn't mean in the case of the article, but on adjectives after nouns that end with a dental consonant:

older speakers: bean dubh
younger speakers: bean dhubh
etc

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 Post subject: Re: Qualifying a noun
PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014 10:22 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
older speakers: bean dubh
younger speakers: bean dhubh
etc

Má tá suím agat i nGaelainn an aosa óig, do mholfainn "An Chonair Chaoch", tá tuairim daichead difríocht ann idir teanga na glúine is óige agus teanga na seanaghlúine, ach caithfead a rá gur botúin roinnt mhaith acu, mar shampla deireann a lán daoine óga "ag bualadh é" in inead "á bhualadh".

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 Post subject: Re: Qualifying a noun
PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014 10:31 pm 
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ah ok, so the rule doesn't apply because the dhíreach is separated by fhada.
if i was just to say straight nose, it would be srón díreach.

Something completely new to me :)

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